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Riding my bicycle on the Silver Comet from Hiram trailhead out, open carrying my Glock as usual. I saw the deputy about 200ft across the street in the other parking lot as I began my ride and wondered if he saw my weapon. Sure enough it wasn't but a few minutes and I heard his ATV coming up behind me on the trail. He pulls up beside me and asks me to pull over. So I pull over and keep my hands on the handle bars as he walks over and says "You know why I pulled you over?"
'Oh yea' was my reply. (What else for, I sure wasn't speeding) He was calm and didn't draw on me or take my weapon, or search me, just asked to see my permit, which I produced. He then asked for my drivers license. I probably could have took him to task on this, but decided to play along to see how it all went down. He called my DL# in to dispatch and we talked about Glocks and holsters in the meanewhile. Another deputy appeared out of the woods about 75ft in front of us and as he started to walk over the first deputy said to him it was OK, I had a permit. Deputy #1 did mention that most people conceal while carrying on the trail and he was concerned that I could be become a target of gun thieves if they saw my weapon. I just told him that open carry was my preferred method of carrying while riding. He didn't push it after that. He gave me back my license and permit. We shook hands and off I went on my ride. 10-15 minutes delay.
 

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Did you get the deputy's name? Even if you didn't please contact the Sheriff and tell him what happened and that you didn't like being detained, just because of the mere presence of your firearm. http://www.paulding.gov/index.aspx?nid=69

He looks like a reasonable fellow.
 

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I watch the watchers
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He called in your license .... because you were riding a bicycle? :screwy:
 

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Fallschirmjäger said:
He called in your license .... because you were riding a bicycle?
On a bike trail.
 

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topcat said:
...and says "You know why I pulled you over?"
'Oh yea' was my reply. (What else for, I sure wasn't speeding)
:puke:

He was calm and didn't draw on me or take my weapon, or search me, just asked to see my permit, which I produced.
:puke:

He then asked for my drivers license. I probably could have took him to task on this, but decided to play along to see how it all went down.
:puke:

He called my DL# in to dispatch and we talked about Glocks and holsters in the meanewhile. Another deputy appeared out of the woods about 75ft in front of us and as he started to walk over the first deputy said to him it was OK, I had a permit. Deputy #1 did mention that most people conceal while carrying on the trail and he was concerned that I could be become a target of gun thieves if they saw my weapon.
Next time inform him then he should conceal his!

I just told him that open carry was my preferred method of carrying while riding. He didn't push it after that. He gave me back my license and permit. We shook hands and off I went on my ride. 10-15 minutes delay.
Glad it worked out for you!

He was not your friend, he was looking to take you to jail!
 

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This deputy had no authority to detain you, view your GWL, or run your DL. However you consented to everything...you didn't ask AIFTG so we'll never know if he would have violated your rights or not. It looks like you didn't stand up for your rights.

On second thought I don't know, since he pulled up beside you and told you to pull over, maybe he did detain you? Did you feel like you had to stop? Again, we can't know for sure because you didn't determine if it was a tier I or tier II encounter.

It seems like a training issue, both for you and the deputy.
 

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The Governor signed into law SB-308 on the 4th of June. A portion of that law says the presence of a firearms license must be connected to an offense, and can no longer be connected to a defense. A LEO may no longer ask for a permit, unless he can state a RAS that another crime was being committed.

Is it too much to expect that this information would've been disseminated during the past four months? The LEOs action is inexcusable, and the OP needs to contact his superior.
 

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OP, I know this is nit picking but you do not have a permit. You have a Georgia Weapons License. Why did he need you drivers license you were not operating a motor vehicle?
 
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CountryGun said:
The Governor signed into law SB-308 on the 4th of June. A portion of that law says the presence of a firearms license must be connected to an offense, and can no longer be connected to a defense. A LEO may no longer ask for a permit, unless he can state a RAS that another crime was being committed.
I am curious - can you point me to which section of SB308 or which code section it is that was modified in this respect? Thx
 

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keepitreal said:
CountryGun said:
The Governor signed into law SB-308 on the 4th of June. A portion of that law says the presence of a firearms license must be connected to an offense, and can no longer be connected to a defense. A LEO may no longer ask for a permit, unless he can state a RAS that another crime was being committed.
I am curious - can you point me to which section of SB308 or which code section it is that was modified in this respect? Thx
I couldn't specifically find this, but I'm a jarhead and can't read ... So here is the link:

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2009 ... /sb308.htm

Hope that helps...
 

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Junior Butt Warmer
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I'm missing what the RAS was for pulling him over.

GAGunOwner said:
On second thought I don't know, since he pulled up beside you and told you to pull over, maybe he did detain you? Did you feel like you had to stop? Again, we can't know for sure because you didn't determine if it was a tier I or tier II encounter.
He was pulled over. That's Tier-II.

Could he have just smiled and waved and kept on his merry way ignoring the deputy? Wouldn't that have been construed as "eluding"?
 

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CoffeeMate said:
Could he have just smiled and waved and kept on his merry way ignoring the deputy? Wouldn't that have been construed as "eluding"?
I smell a "high speed pursuit."

and then a pit maneuver.
 

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keepitreal said:
CountryGun said:
The Governor signed into law SB-308 on the 4th of June. A portion of that law says the presence of a firearms license must be connected to an offense, and can no longer be connected to a defense. A LEO may no longer ask for a permit, unless he can state a RAS that another crime was being committed.
I am curious - can you point me to which section of SB308 or which code section it is that was modified in this respect? Thx
I think I'm losing my sanity! Help me!......somebody? Jeff? I know that I read that, though I now can't find it. Was it in HB-291 (vetoed)? Somebody?...........save me tons of embarrassment? :oops:
 

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CountryGun said:
I think I'm losing my sanity! Help me!......
Well I think there was something like that in HB615. They can ask(same as they can ask about the weather), they just can't detain "without more". The problem here is the OP suspended his rights, so all is ok from a law standpoint. I see the sticky point as when does it escalate to detainment.
 

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mountainpass said:
CoffeeMate said:
Could he have just smiled and waved and kept on his merry way ignoring the deputy? Wouldn't that have been construed as "eluding"?
I smell a "high speed pursuit."

and then a pit maneuver.
Or maybe even a shooting if the bicycle was rode toward the officer...
 

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CountryGun said:
keepitreal said:
CountryGun said:
The Governor signed into law SB-308 on the 4th of June. A portion of that law says the presence of a firearms license must be connected to an offense, and can no longer be connected to a defense. A LEO may no longer ask for a permit, unless he can state a RAS that another crime was being committed.
I am curious - can you point me to which section of SB308 or which code section it is that was modified in this respect? Thx
I think I'm losing my sanity! Help me!......somebody? Jeff? I know that I read that, though I now can't find it. Was it in HB-291 (vetoed)? Somebody?...........save me tons of embarrassment? :oops:
I don't think it was explicit. The old way said it was a crime to carry a pistol w/o a license, implicitly means it's an element of the defense. The new way says no person shall carry w/o a license, which implicitly means it's an element of the offense.

At least that's what I got out of an MP posting somewhere.
 

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Rugerer said:
CountryGun said:
keepitreal said:
CountryGun said:
The Governor signed into law SB-308 on the 4th of June. A portion of that law says the presence of a firearms license must be connected to an offense, and can no longer be connected to a defense. A LEO may no longer ask for a permit, unless he can state a RAS that another crime was being committed.
I am curious - can you point me to which section of SB308 or which code section it is that was modified in this respect? Thx
I think I'm losing my sanity! Help me!......somebody? Jeff? I know that I read that, though I now can't find it. Was it in HB-291 (vetoed)? Somebody?...........save me tons of embarrassment? :oops:
I don't think it was explicit. The old way said it was a crime to carry a pistol w/o a license, implicitly means it's an element of the defense. The new way says no person shall carry w/o a license, which implicitly means it's an element of the offense.

At least that's what I got out of an MP posting somewhere.
That may have been where I saw it! Chime in MP!
 

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what does "element of defense" versus "element of offense" mean? I see them used quite a bit and my non lawyer mind just dosen't understand the difference....
 

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MyFred said:
what does "element of defense" versus "element of offense" mean? I see them used quite a bit and my non lawyer mind just dosen't understand the difference....
Under "element of the offense", an LEO must be able to convey a RAS (Reasonable Articulable Suspicion) that his contact was trying to commit a crime (other than carrying a firearm) before he/she can even ask for a GFL/GWL. Neat, huh?
 

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My non-lawyer understanding is that "element of the offense" means the circumstance/situation must exist in order to be charged. Further, with no RAS/PC of the existence of the element(s) of the crime, there is no justification for detaining.

"Element of the defense" speaks to affirmative defense which means that after being charged and arrested, the person can raise the circumstance/situation as a valid defense to counter the charges, (Shroedinger's Lamppost).

If I recall correctly, SB308 closed a "hole" in 16-12-127. Before SB308, a person could be arrested and charged for carrying onto mass transit (buses and rail). Later in court, the person could introduce their GFL as a valid defense to the charges.

After SB308, carrying onto mass transit (buses and rail) without a GFL/GWL is a crime. Absence of the carry permit is an "element of the offense".

Plenty of details omitted but I think that is the gist of it.
 
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