Going before the school board Nov. 4

Discussion in 'Places Off-Limits' started by Dawgdoc, Oct 20, 2014.

  1. Dawgdoc

    Dawgdoc Active Member

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    As I posted in the HB826 thread, I will be going before the school board on November 4 to ask them to allow armed defense of our schools. I will have 5 minutes, and I really don't know how receptive they will be.

    The director of operations has previously stated that allowing weapons was rejected because of the training issues. As Coffeemate pointed out in the other thread, using former LEO or military will allow them to waive the training requirement. There might be more than a few retired vets who could volunteer; we won't know until someone asks.

    The first step is have the board authorize the carrying of weapons; then we should worry about the what, when, where, and how of training. I want them on record about allowing better defense. The cynical part of me thinks that they are using the training requirement as an excuse to do nothing.

    One idea that I had was to just ask the Sheriff if his office would provide the training as required by 16-11.130.1. There is also a section about allowing the authorized personnel to pay for their own training; do you think that taking a typical state weapons carry course (such as Tennessee or South Carolina) would fit the training requirements? By my reading, the school board could ask for volunteers and also ask the volunteers to provide their own training. If the board would allow this, I wouldn't be surprised if someone volunteered to train the teachers or other volunteers like what has happened in other states.

    Anyone have any other advice on how I should present the request or what else I should include? The points that I want to cover are that Georgia law allows for armed defense, that many parents want to see real security, and we can't plan for a Sandy Hook when the next threat might be an ISIS-inspired lone wolf.

    Also, by my reading, the board of education building might fall under the definition of a government building, but not a school safety zone as defined by 16-11-127.1 unless they also use it for elementary or secondary education. Any opinions on that?
     
  2. Scout706

    Scout706 Active Member

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    Hmmm. Georgia doesn't have "state weapons carry course". I would name the states that allow campus carry, untrained, and and stress that there aren't daily bloodbaths there. If they can do it, why can't we?
    Good luck and thank you for trying.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014

  3. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    As Scout said, I think that naming the other states that allow it is important - it emphasizes that we're not breaking new ground here. Also, I think that the most fundamental thing to note is that guns or other weapons will make it into schools - rules and laws have no effect on that. There are a lot of things that are prohibited in schools that the schools still end up dealing with on a daily basis. The unfortunate reality is that a firearm is the only viable defense against someone armed with another firearm and is the best defense all around. I would acknowledge the concerns people may have introducing firearms for defensive purposes into the schools, but until Star Trek stun phasers are invented, there is no other viable option for stopping an active shooter. The fact you can't prevent firearms from entering the school and a firearm is the only viable way to stop an active shooter are undeniable. As for training, maybe it would make the school board more comfortable if the armed defenders were required to pass the same POST firearms test that police officers have to pass. Otherwise there are a plethora of NRA courses from Basic Pistol, Defensive Pistol, etc. I agree that the training issue can be secondary to just paving the way to allow for defensive firearms in the school - training, access restrictions, etc. can be worked out later.
     
  4. DonT

    DonT Deplorable bitter clinger.

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    Good advice above. I would add, be prepared to answer hostile questions you will likely get, with statistics and facts. They will throw out every negative news story about a firearms incident at a school in the last decade at you, like the teacher in Utah recently who negligently discharged her handgun in a bathroom at the school. But the stats you should have should show that any firearms incidents are almost zero, when it comes to schools and legally carried guns.

    Good luck!
     
  5. RebelCowboySnB

    RebelCowboySnB Opinion Taken Elsewhere.

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    The law that allows schools to arm teachers has a training requirement. Untraned is not a legal option for staff or anyone there as security.

    Is there are class to be armed security in Ga? That should fit the law.
     
  6. Dawgdoc

    Dawgdoc Active Member

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    First I need them to authorize the carrying of weapons by volunteers, then we could figure out the training.

    This is the law's language about training:

    "Training of approved personnel prior to authorizing such personnel to carry weapons. The training shall at a minimum include training on judgment pistol shooting, marksmanship, and a review of current laws relating to the use of force for the defense of self and others; provided, however, that the local board of education training policy may substitute for certain training requirements the personnel's prior military or law enforcement service if the approved personnel has previously served as a certified law enforcement officer or has had military service which involved similar weapons training;"

    And this:

    " The local board of education shall be responsible for any costs associated with approving personnel to carry or possess weapons within a school safety zone, at a school function, or on a bus or other transportation furnished by a school; provided, however, that nothing contained in this Code section shall prohibit any approved personnel from paying for part or all of such costs or using any other funding mechanism available, including donations or grants from private persons or entities."

    The simplest solution is to have the armed volunteers obtain the training themselves. With wording quoted above, something as simple as the South Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit class would theoretically suffice (it doesn't actually specify that the "laws relating to the use of force" be Georgia specific). Around here, there might be more than a few people who have taken the Tennessee course, which might suffice.
     
  7. SgtRock

    SgtRock Member

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    Down here the use of volunteers for most any reason is shot down due to their lack of "sufficient" liability insurance coverage so I would recommend that be a component of your presentation. Also to maximize your time at the dais I would suggest your read from a larger font pre-written script. In this way you will effectively hit all your main points. You can also go beyond your 5 minutes by tag-teaming with another individual or more. There is a 5 minute limit but not a people limit. Lastly stress a background check as school boards and parents want knowledge there will be no predators on the volunteer team. Yes, you can mention the GWCL background but stressing Sex Offender Background Check would be a bonus for your camp.
     
  8. Don27

    Don27 Member

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    Just ask them this question.
    Q. How do you stop a bad guy with a gun?......

    A. A good guy with a gun. You just have to ask yourselves how long your willing to wait for that good guy to show up.
     
  9. Dawgdoc

    Dawgdoc Active Member

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    In this case, the law specifically says, "nor shall this Code section create any liability for adopting or declining to adopt such practice or program. "
     
  10. fmlaw1

    fmlaw1 Active Member

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    I wish you strength and the best of luck!

    I doubt you will be able to get even a tacit agreement from anyone on that board. BUT, it will put the issue on record, as well as their response(s) to it.

    You'll help take a big step forward in the process overall.
     
  11. Doby45

    Doby45 New Member

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    I would say the "training" required would be at minimum:

    Qualifying score on an approved law enforcement course of fire ( GDAC ) 80% is common. (30 rounds)

    "Use of Deadly Force" which is a GA POST course that every law enforcement officer is required to take every year. This course covers the items needed in order to lawfully take the life of another and some of the laws that go along with that.

    Possibly, a FATS type course to simulate judgemental shooting.

    I would say that without those items above at MINIMUM you stand a snow balls chance in hell, prior LEO / military or not.
     
  12. Scout706

    Scout706 Active Member

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    They are called MEGGITT now. Got bought.
     
  13. Dawgdoc

    Dawgdoc Active Member

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    Apparently Georgia law leaves it up to the discretion of the school board as to how to fulfill the rather vague training requirements.
     
  14. Doby45

    Doby45 New Member

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    Ahhhhhh, I see. MEGGITT purchased FATS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  15. Dawgdoc

    Dawgdoc Active Member

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    I've got my speech prepared and tomorrow is the night.
     
  16. Feral

    Feral Active Member

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    Let us know how it goes. Best of luck to you.
     
  17. Dawgdoc

    Dawgdoc Active Member

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    Thanks. I figure I could be going before 5 "Everytown" fans, or 5 Gadsden-waving NRA members, but they'll all probably be somewhere in between the two ends of the spectrum. I don't have high expectations, but I feel strongly that our public servants should have to make a decision one way or the other, instead of just ignoring it.
     
  18. Dawgdoc

    Dawgdoc Active Member

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    Well, I spoke before the Catoosa Board of Education tonight.

    I explained that the training requirement was a minor obstacle, and that the law specifically removed liability from the board. I then calmly explained that relying on the police response would result in people dying.

    The chairman, Don Dycus, was immediately dismissive (polite, but dismissive). Whereas the other four members acted interested, he was the only one who spoke, re-iterating that they did not want to rely on "untrained teachers" to defend our schools. Instead, my son's school gets to share one SRO with two other schools. He basically ignored all of my points, but he did say that they worked closely with the Sheriff's Office to develop the safety plan, and if the SO suggests doing anything more (like allowing armed defense by volunteers), then they might consider it. So in other words, the opinion of the common citizen is worth less than our highly trained LEOs.

    Also, I printed off copies of 16-11-130.1 for each member. Some of them acted interested in the document. I noticed that when my board member tried to slide a copy over the Dycus, he stopped it off to his side and didn't even deign to look at it. His mind was obviously already made.

    There was hardly anyone there, so I can't even say that I planted the seeds of an idea in many ears. During the recess, my board rep came up to me to thank me for standing up for something I believe in, and doing it in front of my child, who was with me. She admitted that she was a fence sitter, but she wasn't overtly hostile to the idea of armed defense. She started talking about the administrator who tried to stop a school shooter--she thought it was the Sandy Hook principle, but I quickly set her straight about that and told her it was durubg the Pearl, Mississippi shooting.

    My general impression is that they (or at leas the majority) have their heads buried in the sand, and they think because nothing bad has ever happened, then nothing ever will.
     
  19. Taurus92

    Taurus92 Well-Known Member

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    Great work! :applause:

    After reading what you have written, I'm reminded of this
    http://www.alabamas13.com/story/270...cal-condition-after-employee-returns-gun-fire

    I guess I look at this differently. Where, as you say, they don't want "'untrained teachers' to defend our schools.", I think every adult (and that includes teachers) has the right to defend themselves. This will also defend the kids. It's not a matter of charging the teacher with the responsibility of protecting the kids, it's a matter of letting the teacher protect themselves, which in effect protects the kids. They are dealing way too much with the mentality of trying to turn teachers into robo cops. They miss the point.
     
  20. Dawgdoc

    Dawgdoc Active Member

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    I have taken a page from the liberal progressives play book about not letting a crisis go to waste, only I'm sincere in my concern. I sent the following email to the members of the Catoosa County School Board, and my wife shared it on her Facebook page. It is true that so far, everyone we talk with voices support for some type of armed defense of our school.

    The shooting in Chattanooga is close to my home, relatively speaking (we drove by today on the way to shopping). The proximity to I-75 has probably facilitated some home burglaries in our area, and there is no reason to think a killer wouldn't use the same logic.