GMU Student on Cover of Washington Times

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Malum Prohibitum, Aug 13, 2007.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    From VCDL Alert:

    1. Great article on college carry!

    Kudos to member Andrew Dysart, whose efforts to get student concealed carry at GMU are on the front page of the Washington Times today!
    Above the fold no less!

    As a spokesman for "Students for Concealed Carry on Campus," Andrew is doing a fantastic job.

    I can't say as much for VT spokesman, Larry Hincker, who continues to provide horrible quotes.

    Delegate Mark Cole (R-Fredericsburg area), who had introduced the college carry bill for VCDL this year, is also quoted.

    My comments on this balanced and factually accurate article are toward the end in square brackets.

    Students push for guns on campus

    August 13, 2007

    By Zinie Chen Sampson
    ASSOCIATED PRESS - RICHMOND - College students are pushing for their schools to allow them to carry guns on campus, saying they should have the right to protect themselves in a situation like the one in which 32 Virginia Tech students and faculty were fatally shot.

    Andrew Dysart, a George Mason University senior, organized a chapter of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, which hopes to persuade legislators to overturn a Virginia law that allows universities to prohibit students, faculty and staff members with gun permits from carrying their weapons onto campus.

    "There's no way to know what could have happened, but the students at Tech, they really should have had a chance," Mr. Dysart said of the April 16 shootings in which gunman Seung-hui Cho killed 32 persons, then fatally shot himself. "They should have had the chance to defend themselves if it came down to that."

    Virginia law lets schools decide whether to allow students with concealed-weapons permits to carry their guns on campus. One state school, Blue Ridge Community College, gave permission. Schools cannot prohibit nonstudents or other outsiders from carrying weapons onto campuses if they have legal permits.

    "In a sense, [students] don't have the same rights to self-defense on campus as the general public," said Mr. Dysart, who said his four years as a Marine shaped his ideas about self-defense. "It's really lopsided the way it works."

    Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, a Democrat, said individual colleges and universities should be able to decide whether to allow students to carry guns onto school grounds. Mr. Kaine also said he would wait to see whether a panel studying the Virginia Tech shootings makes recommendations on the issue.

    Nationwide, 38 states ban weapons at schools, and 16 of those specifically ban guns on college campuses, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Other states allow schools to adopt their own gun policies.

    Utah is the only state that specifically allows people to carry concealed weapons at public colleges. Legislation passed in 2004 allows concealed weapons on all state property, including colleges and universities. The University of Utah, which had banned concealed weapons for decades, challenged the law, but the state Supreme Court upheld it last year.

    South Carolina's legislature this year defeated a bill that would allow permit holders to carry guns onto public-school campuses.

    Students for Concealed Carry on Campus members at more than 60 colleges are trying to change their state laws to allow permit holders to carry on campus.

    Joe Culotta, a senior at the University of Central Florida, said he and fellow students planned to form a group to advocate for concealed carry even before the Virginia Tech shootings. The Knights Rifle Association seeks recognition as an official student organization this fall, and plans to circulate a petition to send to Florida's governor about the issue, Mr. Culotta said.

    Many colleges generally oppose, for safety reasons, allowing concealed-carry permit holders to bring guns onto campus and resist efforts to change the law.

    In the Virginia General Assembly, a bill requiring schools to allow permit holders to carry concealed handguns was defeated in subcommittee this year, said Delegate Mark L. Cole, the Spotsylvania Republican who sponsored the bill. Mr. Cole said he will wait until the Virginia Tech study panel issues its findings before deciding whether to reintroduce such a measure.

    "Obviously, the current policy is ineffective," he said. "It certainly didn't protect anyone at Virginia Tech."

    The International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators, which represents campus public-safety officials, said the presence of students carrying concealed weapons "has the potential to dramatically increase violence on our college and university campuses." [Note the phrase '**potential** increase in violence.' That is the same alarmist phrase used when 'shall-issue'
    was being passed back in 1995. And it did not come true then and it won't come true now. - PVC]

    Allowing concealed weapons brings the potential for accidental gun discharge or misuse of firearms at parties, including those where alcohol or drugs are used, and the possibility for guns to be used to settle students' disputes, the group said. [Note the implication that drugs and alcohol on campus are OK and accepted by the administration! However, the drugs and alcohol are what the school says would make students carrying handguns dangerous. So the answer is simple - get drugs and alcohol off the campus and let students
    carry! That would make college life much safer for many reasons,
    including a significant drop in alcohol/drug overdoses and DUI deaths. The truth is that permit holders do not drink excessively, if at all, nor do they take drugs, so the IACLEA's arguments are specious anyway. - PVC]

    Virginia Tech officials haven't actively lobbied against attempts to modify the state's law, spokesman Larry Hincker said, but the university's position on weapons hasn't changed after the shootings.
    [That is NOT true! In the last two years, VT has actively lobbied against the college carry bills introduced for VCDL by Delegates Todd Gilbert and Mark Cole! Could Mr. Hincker have overindulged on all the drugs and alcohol reported on campus by IACLEA and blacked out during VT's lobbying efforts? - PVC]

    "We don't believe that guns have any place in the classroom," Mr.
    Hincker said. "We've experienced far more of guns in the classroom than any university should have to endure." [And you didn't learn a DAMNED THING, did you, Mr. Hincker? - PVC]
  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    From the same alert, it appears their Lt. Governor favors college carry!

    2. Lt. Governor Bill Bolling stands behind college carry!

    Unlike VT spokesman, Larry Hincker, Lt. Governor Bolling understands the horrible lessons from the VT massacre:

    From WSET:
    One of Lt. Governor's Ideas: Guns on Campuses
    Location: Christiansburg, VA
    Reporter: Courtney

    Christiansburg, VA - It's one idea some have said could have played a key role in the Tech tragedy: allowing students and university staff to carry firearms on campus. And it's part of Lieutenant Governor Bill Bolling's "100 ideas for the future of Virginia."

    Bolling has visited communities across the Commonwealth the ideas come from what he's heard. Currently, most colleges and universities in the state of Virginia do not allow students or staff to carry weapons despite concealed carry permits. If you aren't a student or staff, you can.

    This idea calls for legislation to prevent colleges and universities from making those bans legally.

    Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling, (R) Virginia - "Well I don't know the answer to whether or not if someone had had a weapon with them on campus if it would have made a difference. I don't know that anyone in Norris Hall on the day of this shooting had a concealed carry permit, but you know what we're looking at is do the prohibitions make sense?"

    Bolling is a staunch supporter of the right to bear arms. Several other ideas from his listening tour work to protect the second amendment.


    BTW, many of you have sent comments to the "100 Ideas" site, but they have not been posted. That site is moderated, so the posts can be delayed for days or weeks until they can be approved.

  3. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    And a poll

    3. Survey on college carry - let's all vote!

    You have to click on a metro station near you to finalize your vote.
    I just picked a Virginia one.
  4. M249

    M249 New Member

    Get those votes in, it's 63% to 37% in favor of allowing students to carry :)
  5. ptsmith24

    ptsmith24 New Member

    82% to 18% in favor now.
  6. CrankE

    CrankE Guest

    I saw Mr. Dysart on CNN late today and thought he handled himself okay. The news-twit focused in on how dangerous it would be to let one handgun on campus considering how one handgun could kill 32 people...yayayaaya. His response was that one person did kill 32 people. My response would have been, "One law abiding citizen with one handgun could have responded to Kim Chee and 32 families wouldn't be grieving." She later said something about how alcohol abuse and acquaintance rape were two of the most alarming trends on college campus these days and did we really want to throw guns into the mix. I didn't catch his response; I was too busy cussing the info-twit.

    Typical liberal news reporting; they make no distinction between illegal immigrants or legal gun carry.
  7. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    2. GMU responds on regulation, but they have it wrong

    Having 6,400 of you on VA-ALERT is a powerful tool. Unfortunately for me, sometimes I get to be on the other end of that power! :-(

    I received *hundreds* of emails sharing a response from Mr. Hubble with George Mason University to VCDL's request to extend the regulation comment period for their proposed gun ban.

    Here is what Mr. Hubble wrote in a canned email to everyone:


    "Please be advised that educational institutions of the Commonwealth are exempt from the Administrative Process Act pursuant to 2.2-4002.A.6. of the Code of Virginia. University regulations are instead adopted in conformity with the Virginia Register Act, 2.2-4100, et seq., of the Code of Virginia.

    No public hearing is required. The proposed regulation appeared in the August 6th Virginia Register of Regulations in conformity with the Virginia Register Act."


    **I'm not buying it.** Here is what he claims gives them the exemption:


    § 2.2-4002. Exemptions from chapter generally.

    A. Although required to comply with § 2.2-4103 of the Virginia Register Act (§ 2.2-4100 et seq.), the following agencies shall be exempted from the provisions of this chapter, except to the extent that they are specifically made subject to §§ 2.2-4024, 2.2-4030 and


    6. Educational institutions operated by the Commonwealth, provided that, with respect to § 2.2-4031, such educational institutions shall be exempt from the publication requirements only with respect to regulations that pertain to (i) their academic affairs, (ii) the selection, tenure, promotion and disciplining of faculty and employees, (iii) the selection of students, and (iv) rules of conduct and disciplining ***of students.***


    GMU's proposed regulation banning guns affects not only students and employees, it affects the GENERAL PUBLIC, and THAT is NOT one of the exceptions above!

    I'm throwing up the yellow flag on this one.

    The good news is that they are providing us more fodder for the next General Assembly session; the bad news is we must continue the fight to keep this from becoming a regulation.