Give me your tired, your poor...

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by Rammstein, Apr 28, 2007.

  1. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I am in favor of more migrant workers.

    Explain to me why I should not be.
     
  2. glockgirl

    glockgirl New Member

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    Do you mean legal migrant workers or illegal?

    If you mean legal then ok I am all for it. If you mean illegal (which many are) then I have problem with them partaking of our soceity and infrastructure while not paying any taxes.

    I have no problem with migrant workers as long as they pull their soceital weight so to say!
     

  3. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Specifically illegal.

    While they do not pay taxes they do inject money into the economy. From my perspective, they beat the system. They get to stay here in America, but not pay our ridiculous taxes.
     
  4. merlock

    merlock New Member

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    But I still do.
    :rant:
    I'll turn 47 in June. That means I have *20* more years to pay into <strike>the .gov pyramid scheme</strike> social security. I've already been paying since 1975. I'll probably be lucky to get anything back. Now, your compadres are collecting bennies from *my* taxes. Frack that, and frack them as well. If they want to come here to work, let them come *legally*, like most of our ancestors, and assimilate into *our* society and culture (including paying taxes), not vice-versa. Remember, no matter how hard working and decent they are, they are still *criminals*, no different than you or me walking into Pizza Hut to get our carry-out while we are armed (Not that we would do that, of course).
     
  5. flyin929

    flyin929 New Member

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    As a former citizen of Southern California, I'd have to say that I am against it.
    I am heavily in favor of cheating the Government when it comes to taxes but the Mexicans have it heads down... free medical care, food stamps, WIC, education (There are actually Mexican citizens that cross the border every day to catch the schoolbus that takes them to our tax payer funded schools)
    When I lived in SoCal I was told more than once that if I was to continue living there... I needed to learn Spanish.
    It's a bad idea to drop our guard, our borders, our culture just because Mexico can't hold its own.
    As far as pumping money into our economy, Mexico's 2nd largest source of money is American dollars... that makes them our friends!
    Did they help out in Iraq? NO.
    Break with OPEC? NO.
    Do they harbor fugitives from American justice? YES
     
  6. maddog

    maddog New Member

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    Sadly enough they probably have a better chance to draw Social Security than most of the U.S. Citizens that payed into it.
     
  7. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    So most of the arguments here is not so much them being here illegally, but that our own government is broken because they give hand-outs to anyone who asks.

    I advocate an open border. Anyone who wants to come to this country to work or better themselves should be able to freely do so.

    merlock, While it may be *our* society it is still an amalgam of many societies. I can't imagine an America without the things that the many emigrants brought with them. America is a culture of many cultures.

    And the crime the committed? I don't consider something a crime unless it deprives another of their life/liberty/property.


    flyin929, allowing an open boarder would not drop our guard. We've survived this far without the border being a problem. Culturally, most Mexicans do seem to be reluctant to assimilate. However, I would explain this as us saying that they are illegals. Allow them to be here and pay into our system. If they are gonna be here they might as well pay taxes like all of us.

    Did they help out in Iraq? We shouldn't even be there in the first place ;) So I can't fault them for that.
    Break with OPEC? They are not members of OPEC. I don't understand the problem.
    Harbor fugitives? Just like Canada and other nations. We have an extradition process in place if we need those people to serve justice here.

    Maddog, the illegals I worked with payed into Social Security, but I don't see how they would draw from it. They have 3-5 people to a SS card.

    So if we really look at this we see that they pay their 6.2% in SS taxes as well as the corporation that MATCHES that 6.2%. Not to mention the payroll tax of 1.45% that both employer and employee pay. So I would say that the workers being payed by corporations ARE doing their part to pay into a system they will not be able to draw from.
     
  8. flyin929

    flyin929 New Member

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    Ramm,
    Once again a larger brain prevails over mine. You are right about Mexico not being a member of OPEC but they do follow suit in OPEC policy.
    I have nothing against Americans of Mexican descent, but the new immigrant is very Nationalistic and it's all about Mexico...Viva La Raza!
    A lot of how I feel is rooted in that "hometown" remembrance.
    I think that until you have lived in and witnessed such a radical change in your home environment you lack an understanding of what negative change can do. East L.A. (where I was born) and Tijuana are remarkably similar today whereas in the good old days :D You could actually tell them apart.
    I'm just not a multi-cultural guy.
    Good fences make good neighbors.
     
  9. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I used to live in southern California. I've seen the change that my old neighborhood went through.

    These Mexican migrants are being payed lower wages because they are here illegally. Employers know that if Pedro does something he doesn't like he can fire him and get Paco for the same price or less. If we allowed these people to come out from the shadows I believe that they would, over time, have an overall increase in wages. Firms would be more reluctant to fire them. A rise in wages would allow them to save more and spend more. Spending more and injecting more into our economy. Saving more by buying houses (building equity) and creating a savings account.
     
  10. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe New Member

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    We don't have extradition treaties with every country. Also with some of the ones we do have treaties with, they have an annoying habit of not following it if we plan on imposing the death penalty on the fugitave they harbor.
     
  11. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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  12. merlock

    merlock New Member

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    And, I agree with this; however, in *our* culture, English is our spoken and written form of communication. I really resent having to "Press 1 for English" in the United States. Paco and Pablo might be fascinating people, but I'll be damned if I am going to habla (or learn to habla) to talk to them, in *my* native country, in *their* native tongue. Of course, that would be different if I was to go to Mexico (which I have absolutely no desire to do). When I was stationed in Germany, if I wanted to (which I did) experience *their* culture (without being categorized as a typical, ugly American), *I* had to assimilate-learn their language, customs, etc. When I got a small flat off-base, there was no "Press 1 for English" to deal with the landlord, utility and telephone companies, etc. *Everything* was in German.

    While your attitude is laudable, we are still a nation of laws, even if we do not agree with them. Of course, that's where civil disobedience comes in. Are you willing to back your statement up by openly carrying on your campus?
     
  13. gunsbillygun

    gunsbillygun New Member

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    pack them up ship them back they all can kiss my @#$% !!!!
    :evil:
     
  14. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    True, but it is not America's official language. We have no official language. The reason you have to press one for English is because that is what the market dictates. If there were no demand OR a significant amount of the persons with buying power made it known that they did not want to have to press one for English then you would not have to. However, that is what the market demands because Spanish speaking people are rapidly growing into a huge buying force.

    So your beef is really with retailers. You are made that in addition to you, they cater to the needs of others. I can understand that point of view, but in the eyes of a firm their dollar is just as green as yours.

    As for openly carrying on campus, that is not the right way to change things. We have a democratic process in place and it is not totally defunct. Thus, I must push for a change in legislation before doing something that will get me locked up. Furthermore, that is a straw man argument. My unwillingness to commit a felony does not negate my belief that that specific law is wrong and most definitely not malum in se.
     
  15. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Lemme guess..... because they are taking our jobs? ;)
     
  16. gunsbillygun

    gunsbillygun New Member

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    nope. i got a job, my wife has a job,and the jobs the illigals do , no body wants,
     
  17. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    My question to Ramm is, why are you in favor of illegal immigrants? I've seen your reactions to other's agruments, but I'm wondering why you think they should be here. I'm sure there's some sort of motivation or thought process behind starting this thread.
     
  18. Dan H

    Dan H New Member

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    Honestly, they are taking the jobs that we will not take. "The world needs ditch diggers too".

    I for one dont agree with illegal aliens here in the US, however I would never trade what I have for what they have. Yes, they come here and work making more than they would south of the border and yes they dont pay taxes, however I will never trade my life for that life.

    Going back to the jobs that they do work and without trying to bring race into the equation, it is true that many of these minorities are filling the jobs that our young up and coming white americans will not take. Many of these minimum wage paying jobs, our sons and daughters in highschool or college refuse to take. So I do believe that many of these foreigners can serve a purpose and everyone has there place, but I also agree that if they come here, they should be treated just like everyone else.

    And once I do get the shits of this country and refuse to pay another cent to social security (that I will never see) and crazy taxes that are unjustified, I will expatriate to belize, move all my assets off shore and live on my sailboat with my guns and work on my tan...
     
  19. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Because there is no compelling reason not to allow them into this country.

    You're right, there is a reason. I am giving everyone this opportunity to prove to me why I am wrong. First and foremost, I like to debate. Second, I like to always question my beliefs in the hope that I may find a new answer that is more correct than the one I previously held.

    But why do you think I started this thread? Would it help your argument if I told you my last name is of Portuguese descent?

    My other reason is that I am stuck in my apartment working on a philosophy term paper. I need something to do to relieve the boredom.
     
  20. gunsbillygun

    gunsbillygun New Member

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