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Member Georgia Carry
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Massachusetts was the colony where the Revolutionary War began.
 

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American
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No, they honor the revolution. 1917 is very much on their minds and in their hearts in MA.
 
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Member Georgia Carry
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Lawyer and Gun Activist
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They're not confiscating anything-- they're NOTIFYING licensed gun owners about a big change in the law and ASKING gun owners to comply by surrendering the bump stocks if they're not already out of the state when the law takes effect in February.

The letters are being sent to sportsmen and licensed gun owners in general-- all of them that the state can find an address on. NOT specific individual whom the cops know or reasonably suspect may own these things. The State Police are just spreading the word around the shooting community.

Words mean things.

This is not confiscation. That's when they come and take it from you.
 

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American
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They're not confiscating anything-- they're NOTIFYING licensed gun owners about a big change in the law and ASKING gun owners to comply by surrendering the bump stocks if they're not already out of the state when the law takes effect in February.

The letters are being sent to sportsmen and licensed gun owners in general-- all of them that the state can find an address on. NOT specific individual whom the cops know or reasonably suspect may own these things. The State Police are just spreading the word around the shooting community.

Words mean things.

This is not confiscation. That's when they come and take it from you.
No they are simply making possession of lawfully acquired private property a crime. No violation or equivalence to confiscation there. Lawyers uses of words are often fascinating.
 
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No they are simply making possession of lawfully acquired private property a crime. No violation or equivalence to confiscation there. Lawyers uses of words are often fascinating.
I agree with you.

Per the letter;
1. You can't keep it.
2. You can't sell it to someone out of state.

Here is a quote from the letter (assuming the letter is legit).

Because the law does not allow for transfer or sale of these prohibited items, if you currently possess a bump stock or trigger crank within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts you should contact your local police department or the Massachusetts State Police to get details about how to transfer custody of the prohibited item to the police for destruction. Retention of such a prohibited item beyond the 90 day grace period will expose the owner to criminal prosecution.

If that doesn't sound like confiscation by inferred threat of imprisonment if you don't comply, I don't know what is.

Also, doesn't this go against the 5th amendments "Taking Clause" because the state is not compensating them for turning them into the state.
 

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I've never researched how the "takings clause" might apply to the government declaring a new invention or some type of personal property to be contraband.

Was the Takings Clause used to challenge prohibition? Was that why the constitution had to be amended to accomplish this, or was that simply due to the lack of some other enumerated power given to Congress that would cover banning booze?

What about all the federal drug laws? At some point in Ameican history, cocaine and other hard narcotics were legal. Then states and the feds passed laws making them illegal. So.... did anybody scream about the "takings clause" back then, in the 1920s or 1930s or whenever it was? Certainly no constitutional amendment needed to be passed to authorize the government to ban cocaine and criminalize the continued possession of the stuff you'd previously bought legally.

I think that the "... FOR PUBLIC USE" language of the Takings Clause will be difficult to satisfy. The government doesn't want your bump stock and doesn't intend to use it for any purpose whatsoever, except to see it destroyed.

(I assume that all through that 90-day grace period from February 1 through April 2018, owners of bump fire stocks in Mass. would still be able to destroy them, thus taking them out of the reach of the law.)

At least one federal court has ruled that when the government seizes legal (not contraband) property from its rightful owner for use in some future criminal prosecution, that's not a "Taking for Public Use." That's just the State using its inherent "police power."

https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/209931/amerisource-corp-v-united-states/
 

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It's not confiscation, but the net effect of the difference is negligible. It is interesting that, in struggling to outlaw the gun, they resort to outlawing a piece of plastic that can (optionally) be attached to it - something that likely could be made easily with a 3D printer or plastic molds. Think about it - we're outlawing a piece of plastic...
gunsmoker said:
At least one federal court has ruled that when the government seizes legal (not contraband) property from its rightful owner for use in some future criminal prosecution, that's not a "Taking for Public Use." That's just the State using its inherent "police power."
Exactly. This isn't "taking for public use"; is more along the lines of "forced voluntary seizure".
 

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I don't know how many bump stocks may be in MA but just like the CT assault weapon and hi-cap magazine registration scheme from a few years ago, this will be met with mass non-compliance. No one in their right mind is going to just hand over their property to the cops for "disposal" because they all know where the vast majority of them will end up. I can also see scores of them ending up with family and friends in ME, NH, VT, CT and RI.

This is just more of AG Healey's BS games she started playing with the assault weapon definitions last year.
 

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QUOTE from 11th Circuit Court of Appeals:

Taking Claim

[GUN SOUTH, Inc., an importer and distributor of foreign-made paramilitary firearms]
finally contends that the temporary suspension [of importation of these guns] constitutes a taking of property without just compensation. The Government argues that GSI cannot pursue this claim in this court but must assert this claim in a damages suit in the Claims Court. In the alternative, the Government contends that the temporary suspension does not constitute a taking. We conclude that GSI must bring this claim in the Claims Court.

...As the above discussion demonstrates, the Government [BATF and the U.S Customs Service] has the authority to temporarily suspend the importation of GSI's firearms under the Gun Control Act. Moreover, Congress has not expressed an intention to preclude Tucker Act jurisdiction over a claim for compensation under the Gun Control Act;therefore, GSI can seek damages under the Tucker Act. ...

...Even if we had jurisdiction to consider this claim, we note that the temporary suspension does not constitute a taking. In deciding whether a taking exists, we consider: "the character of the governmental action, its economic impact, and its interference with reasonable investment backed expectations."
Ruckelshaus,467 U.S. at 1004, 104 S.Ct. at 2873, 81 L.Ed.2d at 833

(quoting PruneyardShopping Center v. Robins, 447 U.S. 74, 83, 100 S.Ct. 2035, 2042, 64 L.Ed.2d741, 753 (1980)).

First, the Government has acted in a purely regulatory capacity and does not profit from its actions. Second, the Government has....only temporarily suspended the importation of such rifles. See Pennsylvania Coal Co. v. Mahon, 260 U.S. 393, 43 S.Ct. 158, 67 L.Ed. 322(1922) (regulation of property is a taking only when regulation goes too far).

LINK:

https://www.scribd.com/document/319...of-Alcohol-Tobacco-and-Firearms-William-Von-R
 

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How does AG Healey plan on enforcing this new edict? These aren't serialized parts. Does she plan on threatening bump stock retailers with fines and penalties if they don't turn over sales records? Is she going to send the Gestapo MA State Police on search & confiscate missions to every MA licensed gun owner?
 

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I don't know how many bump stocks may be in MA but just like the CT assault weapon and hi-cap magazine registration scheme from a few years ago, this will be met with mass non-compliance. No one in their right mind is going to just hand over their property to the cops for "disposal" because they all know where the vast majority of them will end up. I can also see scores of them ending up with family and friends in ME, NH, VT, CT and RI.

This is just more of AG Healey's BS games she started playing with the assault weapon definitions last year.
The legislators know that there won't be compliance from many, if not most. That's not the point. The point is that they passed legislation that their constituency is dumb enough to believe will keep them safer, thus worthy of continuing to vote for these incumbents that kept them "safe".

moe mensale said:
How does AG Healey plan on enforcing this new edict? These aren't serialized parts. Does she plan on threatening bump stock retailers with fines and penalties if they don't turn over sales records? Is she going to send the Gestapo MA State Police on search & confiscate missions to every MA licensed gun owner?
It isn't necessary to enforce it or even have it enforceable. It is about the illusion of safety offered in exchange for votes.

GCO should turn this into a fun-raising event. "Send us your bumpstocks that your communist government has illegally outlawed and we'll give you $5 after we turn around and sell it to someone in a free state, like the good ol' state of Georgia."
 

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GCO should turn this into a fun-raising event. "Send us your bumpstocks that your communist government has illegally outlawed and we'll give you $5 after we turn around and sell it to someone in a free state, like the good ol' state of Georgia."
If you possess one of these the law says it's illegal to transfer or otherwise sell it. The only option given is to turn it over to the cops. Yeah, sure, that's what going to happen. Not.
 

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Member Georgia Carry
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I wonder if any idiots in MA are going to start swatting their neighbors with, "There are bump stocks at 123 Elm St...".

Will we then see boots on the ground breaking down doors and storming into homes with guns pointed at everyone to look for those pieces of plastic?
 
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