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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/227251/

Thursday, June 28, 2007
Provo man uses pistol against burglar


Burgle him once, he buys a gun and an alarm.

Try it again and you might get shot.

Police say residents of the Old Academy on University Avenue took on an auto burglar with loaded guns Wednesday morning.

It was the second time the resident's vehicle had been burglarized, and Provo Capt. Cliff Argyle said the man purchased an alarm after the first burglary.

The alarm paged the vehicle owner at 4:30 a.m., notifying him that his Toyota 4Runner had been broken into. He ran down to the underground parking lot with his roommate.

Both brought their pistols.

The two residents confronted the would-be burglars, telling them to get on the ground, Argyle said.

The suspects instead ran to their vehicle and started to drive away. The roommate of the vehicle owner fired his pistol at the green sedan, hitting the front driver's-side tire.

"The tire did not deflate, and the driver kept driving and the vehicle went on its way
," Argyle said. The suspects got away in their green sedan. The roommates did get a license plate number and police are waiting to release it.

Argyle said everyone is lucky that no one was seriously injured.

"Anytime you have two firearms being used, it's a great possibility that someone may get injured using those," Argyle said, noting that one of the roommates thought the burglary suspects were trying to hit them with the vehicle.

Residents shouldn't confront suspects during the commission of a crime, police say. Instead, they ask that victims and witnesses notify the police department and let police officers make contact with the suspects.

Argyle also cautions vehicle owners to not keep valuable items in one's car because vehicle burglaries are crimes of opportunity. When a burglar-to-be sees an iPod or laptop computer sitting on the seat of a vehicle, it's tempting.

"It's just an invitation for someone to break into your car and take that stuff," he said.

The burglary suspects did not get away with anything, and Argyle said they do not know if it is tied to the burglary that frustrated the resident earlier this week, causing him to buy an alarm. In that case, he awoke to find items from his car missing. Argyle did not know what items were stolen.

The Old Academy is Brigham Young University contracted housing. Part of the agreement signed by tenants states that there will be no firearms "unless prior written consent is received from owner/agent and all other tenants in the rental unit."

As for whether the roommates could face charges within Provo City, Argyle said none are being considered at this time. He did say this crime story is unique.

"We've had people confront vehicle burglars in the past, but this is the first time I can recall where the person has used a firearm to confront someone," Argyle said.
 

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Tire deflation after shooting it does not work the way it does in the movies. It deflates very slowly (the rubber closes behind the bullet). You can keep driving for a long time after a bullet goes into the tire.

Oh, I am just guessing, of course. :wink:
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
Tire deflation after shooting it does not work the way it does in the movies. It deflates very slowly (the rubber closes behind the bullet). You can keep driving for a long time after a bullet goes into the tire.

Oh, I am just guessing, of course. :wink:
Especially if it was one of those .9mm guns the media is always talking about
 

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moga said:
http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/227251/

The Old Academy is Brigham Young University contracted housing. Part of the agreement signed by tenants states that there will be no firearms "unless prior written consent is received from owner/agent and all other tenants in the rental unit."
is there no agreement to remove freedom of speech also?
 

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moga said:
"The tire did not deflate, and the driver kept driving and the vehicle went on its way[/b],"
It's quite possible that he hit the wheel and not the tire.

More importantly, did anyone notice that he was shooting at fleeing perps of a misdemeanor (or NON-forceable felony at best)?

Can't you go to jail for that?
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
Tire deflation after shooting it does not work the way it does in the movies. It deflates very slowly (the rubber closes behind the bullet). You can keep driving for a long time after a bullet goes into the tire.

Oh, I am just guessing, of course. :wink:
That's not been my experience. When you take the valve stem out of a tire (which is about 3/16" across) the tire will be FLAT in about 15 seconds. A 9mm hollow point should leave nearly twice as big a hole in the tire as the valve stem, perhaps two holes if it makes it out the other side. I would imagine a shot tire would go down in less than five seconds. That being said, you can drive a surprising distance at substantial speed on a flat, (maybe a few miles if you're running scared)
 

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Sine Nomen said:
I would imagine a shot tire would go down in less than five seconds. That being said, you can drive a surprising distance at substantial speed on a flat, (maybe a few miles if you're running scared)
Hmm 2 miles in 5 sec .... 24 miles in a min .... 1440 mph ... don't think so... lol
 

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Sine Nomen said:
moga said:
"The tire did not deflate, and the driver kept driving and the vehicle went on its way[/b],"
It's quite possible that he hit the wheel and not the tire.

More importantly, did anyone notice that he was shooting at fleeing perps of a misdemeanor (or NON-forceable felony at best)?

Can't you go to jail for that?
I would think so. The 2 gentleman did think that out well enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sine Nomen said:
moga said:
"The tire did not deflate, and the driver kept driving and the vehicle went on its way[/b],"
It's quite possible that he hit the wheel and not the tire.

More importantly, did anyone notice that he was shooting at fleeing perps of a misdemeanor (or NON-forceable felony at best)?

Can't you go to jail for that?
UTAH CODE Section 76-2-406

76-2-406. Force in defense of property.
A person is justified in using force, other than deadly force, against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent or terminate criminal interference with real property or personal property:
(1) Lawfully in his possession; or
(2) Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or
(3) Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.
Enacted by Chapter 196, 1973 General Session

Maybe the explanation of why the roommates shot at the vehicle's tires instead of into the passenger compartment, and why he wasn't arrested after the shoot, are contained in this UT statute?

Those boys may have been been better versed in the laws of their land than it initially seemed.
 

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moga said:
UTAH CODE Section 76-2-406

76-2-406. Force in defense of property.
A person is justified in using force, other than deadly force, against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent or terminate criminal interference with real property or personal property:
(1) Lawfully in his possession; or
(2) Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or
(3) Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.
Enacted by Chapter 196, 1973 General Session

Maybe the explanation of why the roommates shot at the vehicle's tires instead of into the passenger compartment, and why he wasn't arrested after the shoot, are contained in this UT statute?

Those boys may have been been better versed in the laws of their land than it initially seemed.
But, the way the article reads, the perps had already stopped the "criminal interference with real property or personal property" and were just getting the heck out of there.
Secondly, it has been my understanding that discharge of a firearm IS deadly force and that the law makes no distinction about whether you were going for a head-shot, a foot-shot, or a tire-shot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Your first point may have merit; but I'm not so sure about the second.

Above all else, it doesn't appear the boys were arrested, which is good. After all, no matter what the letter says, the law is only as strong as the will of those that enforce it.
 
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