Georgia Renaissance Festival

Discussion in 'Places Off-Limits' started by Sharky, Apr 28, 2006.

  1. Sharky

    Sharky New Member

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    Has anybody gone to this? What kind of security is there and how are security checks entering the festival?

    I know they serve alcohol and probably is off limits, but as many around here share their thoughts on that...................

    Thinking very deep concealment.....
     
  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I think they allow the open carry of broad swords and daggers.

    It must be very dangerous because I see people openly wearing body armor.
     

  3. Sharky

    Sharky New Member

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    I can always count on MP for humor. Thank you sir.

    anyways... Just wondering if anybody actually went and what they noticed.
     
  4. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I have been several times (but not this year). My little boy loves it. They had no metal detectors previously. I treat it as assuming it is a public gathering.

    Try the roasted ears of corn.

    Make it to some of the shows (my little boy really likes the Birds of Prey show).

    And the jousting show is a lot of fun to watch, but there really is not enough seating for it.
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, and do the hatchet throwing, that is a blast! Reminds me of my childhood in Oregon.

    Bring more money than you think . . .
     
  6. Sharky

    Sharky New Member

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    Yeah figured it as much, public gathering and all.

    My fiance used to participate in these festivals back out west. I really enjoy the event as well. Though not participating, we love to check it out and the shows you mentioned.

    Tell me about money! I saw the entrance fee, and if it is like the ones out west, Turner field is a bargain compared! Well may be not but close........

    Thanks MP. :D
     
  7. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    It has been a while since I went but I do remember the outfits the women wear. It makes them all appear to have huge... um, tracks of land. :wink:
     
  8. Sharky

    Sharky New Member

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    You bet!!! I went to my first one with my fiance. I got her all dolled up in a leather dress and my goodness............okay and I'm going to go get her right now. Have a great weekend y'all!
     
  9. glocked_n_loaded

    glocked_n_loaded New Member

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    but doesn't the fact that they charge admission negate the public gathering?.. the admission makes it a private affair right????.. not available to general public if admission is charged.. isn't that the logic for movie theaters?? how is this different?... and i thought i had a handle on this public gathering thing!!!!
     
  10. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    While I have seen that opinion published several times, we have been unable to locate any authority for that proposition. I do not believe the fact that admission is charged is addressed in the statute or case law.

    With that having been said, several of the places listed in the public gathering statute as expressly defined public gatherings are places that do, in fact, charge admission. Since the statute states that public gatherings are not limited to those places listed, the court of appeals has provided a test for determining whether a place or gathering is a public gathering in State v. Burns.

    giving the words their ordinary meaning . . . the statute should apply, in addition to the situations described therein, when people are gathered or will be gathered for a particular function and not when a weapon is carried lawfully to a public place, where people may gather.

    Does that fit a movie theater or the Rennaissance Festival, which charges admission?

    I dunno. :?

    But I suspect it does so much that I am not willing to openly carry up to the gate while I police officer is standing there . . .

    Same for the theater.

    Same for the annual Georgia State Fair.
     
  11. ICP_Juggalo

    ICP_Juggalo Active Member

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    Charging admission does NOT totally negate the fact that a palce might be a public gathering.

    That opinion is merely part of litmus test per se to test whether or not a certain place may or may not be a public gathering if it is not defined in the statue.

    Let me explain.

    I'll use the movie theater scenario because I have argued this particular situation many of times.

    1) Is a movie theater clearly define as a public gathering under 16-11-127? No.

    2)Is a movie theater a public gathering because the scope of 16-11-127 is not limited to the 5 specific areas enumerated in the statue? Maybe

    3) Let's see what the courts have to say, since they are in charge of interpreting the law. I am sure everyone here as read mostly all the case laws regarding the public gathering statue, so basically it is agreed that a public place is not simply off limits because public may gather in large numbers, but a place is off limits if the public gathers or will gather for a particular event or function.

    4) Is the movie theater holding a particular event or function that the public will gather for? Most likely not since the movie theater is selling a service.

    5) Here is where I think the admission test comes in. Is the place in question allowing people to come in freely and gather or are they only allowing people who have reservations or tickets to enter the premise thus keeping the general public from gathering inside the establishment? Remeber we do have caselaw that showed when people gathered to "hangout" it was construed as a public gathering and I think the admission test would help negate the public gathering.

    Remember none of this matters if the place in question clearly falls within the 5 specified areas define in 16-11-127 or if the place in question is holding a particular event or function, Which I would suspect would be a singular event like a concert, parade, Neal Boortz's fair tax rally, ect...

    This is ofcourse my un-educated guess and non-legal opinion :ianal:
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I think what he means is: If you get arrested :jail: at the Renaissance Festival, don't post on here crying to him about it! :-({|= :p
     
  13. ICP_Juggalo

    ICP_Juggalo Active Member

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    I think what he means is: If you get arrested :jail: at the Renaissance Festival, don't post on here crying to him about it! :-({|= :p[/quote:ebo9d4h3]

    Its a bad law all around and whats even worse most LEO's don't know the law.

    I had a Carrollton PD officer about 4 years ago threatened to arrest me for openly carrying at the McDonalds next to the University of West Georgia. He first told me that the license to carry ONLY gives me the right to carry concealed and then when he looked at my license he saw the public gathering law printed on the back of it, he said that I need to re-read my license because according to it I could not carry in any public places :? Kinda makes the point of issuing a license worthless huh :?:
     
  14. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Nope. That is like threatening to arrest you for praying in church or driving on a public road. He can falsely arrest you for anything he wants, I suppose, but the ignorance of one police officer does not make the license worthless.
     
  15. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    THE CASE:

    McDonalds is, by the way, the only restaurant to have been tested in the appellate courts of this state and approved as a "carry zone"!

    State v. Burns, 200 Ga. App. 16 (1991)
    Appellee was arrested at a McDonald's restaurant [and] . . . had a valid gun permit. . . . . [H]e was charged with carrying a deadly weapon to a public gathering (OCGA § 16-11-127). The trial court granted appellee's motion to dismiss the accusation, stating that McDonald's was not a public gathering as contemplated under the statute, and the State appealed.
    OCGA § 16-11-127(b) provides that a "public gathering" includes but is not limited to "athletic or sporting events, schools or school functions, churches or church functions, political rallies or functions, publicly owned or operated buildings, or establishments at which alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises." The State argues that the statute seeks to protect people from injury at public gatherings, caused by others who bring deadly weapons to such places and does not exclude an establishment such as McDonald's, which is a place where the public lawfully gathers. However, this broad interpretation equates "public gathering" to "public place" and blurs the distinction we must assume the legislature intended to make in specifically referring to gatherings in OCGA § 16-11-127 and by limiting its restriction to gatherings as opposed to proscribing the carrying of deadly weapons in public places as defined by OCGA § 16-1-3(15). We agree with appellee that such a construction would render licensing statutes unnecessary because of the potential of violating the statutes by carrying a weapon outside one's household, in public, where the possibility exists that people might gather around someone carrying a weapon. We have held that a conviction was authorized when a weapon was brought to a place where "people were present" (Jordan v. State, 166 Ga.App. 417(4), 304 S.E.2d 522 (1983) [the auto auction case, M.P.]), and it appears from reading subsection (b ) and giving the words their ordinary meaning that the statute should apply, in addition to the situations described therein, when people are gathered or will be gathered for a particular function and not when a weapon is carried lawfully to a public place, where people may gather. Accordingly, the focus is not on the "place" but on the "gathering" of people, and in our view, the court did not err in dismissing the accusation because appellee's possession of a weapon and mere presence in a public place did not constitute a violation of OCGA § 16- 11-127.
    Judgment affirmed.


    I bolded what I thought important.

    " . . . for a particular function . . ." I think that is the most important language in the case. I really think the only difference between this case and Jordan, cited therein, is that Jordan was up to no good and Burns was just lawfully carrying when he ordered a cheeseburger. Since public gathering cases almost always involve a criminal, the case law is usually bad.

    THE AG OPINION:


    The attorney general relied on State v. Burns to answer a question submitted by a State Representative (District 35).

    Link: http://www.state.ga.us/ago/read.cgi?sea ... val=U96-22

    Therefore, it is my unofficial opinion that the "public gathering" law, O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127, in addition to the five specific areas, focuses not on the place but the gathering of people, and that the prohibition against carrying a weapon applies to situations "when people are gathered or will be gathered for a particular function and not when a weapon is carried lawfully to a public place, where people may gather."
     
  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Where does the AG get 5, anyway? I count 6.
    :D
     
  17. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    McDonald's Case

    Does anyone know why Mr. Burns was discovered to have been armed while trying to eat at McDonald's ? The Court of Appeals opinion in STATE v. BURNS, 200 Ga. App 16; 406 S.E. 2d 547 (1991) does not shed any light on this, and it hardly goes in to the facts and circumstances of the case at all.

    Burns' lawyer was JOHN R. MATHER, who is now a State Court Judge in Fulton County. Do you think he would be able to tell us about how his client came to become arrested at McDonald's ? I would go to Gwinnett County and get a copy of the police report myself, but lacking a specific date of arrest or Mr. Burns' first name even, I don't think I have enough info to look it up.

    --gunsmoker--
     
  18. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I would think an "official capacity" call from someone who might be faced with just this situation and a decision to prosecute based upon it might get an answer from Judge Mather without seeming like a bother to him.

    Know anybody like that?
     
  19. asbrand

    asbrand Active Member

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    How is carrying in the Ren Faire a "Public Gathering" when carrying at Six Flags is not?

    /me is confused.

    What's the difference?
     
  20. ICP_Juggalo

    ICP_Juggalo Active Member

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    I don't believe anyone is saying the Georgia Renaissance Festival is a public gathering or otherwise. No one really knows for sure. This all speculation. Ultimately if you were arressted and prosecuted, it would be up to the courts to determine whether or not you're guilty.

    If it were me going to the Georgia Renaissance Festival, I would find out if there is anything within the festival that fits the 5 specific definitions of 16-11-127 ( do they serve alcohol, is it run by a church, held at a government building, on school property, ect.) If not, then I would ask myself, is this simply a public place where people may gather ( like the mall ) or is there a specific event or function that is happening or will happen ( like a parade, public bar-be-que ) that people will gather for.

    I have never been to the Renaissance Festival, but I speculate that the majority of the festival is restaurant/food court type setting with shops to buy merchandise with a venue here or there for the shows. If that is the case, then I would treat the Renaissance Festival as a shopping mall. (Remember according to the AG, shopping malls are not off limits, but areas of the mall that are leased to government entities and restuarants that serve alcohol are off limits)

    As for the shows and events that happen inside the Renaissance Festival, are people allowed to gather for those or are they required to have some sort of ticket or admission to attend those? If people are allowed to freely gather for the shows and events, then I would consider those as public gatherings ( much like a shopping mall as musical events and pagents that people can freely attend in the common area of the mall ) If the shows or events require a ticket or admission AND the show or event doesn't fall within 6 specific areas enumerated in 16-11-127 (.1 to include school property), then I say that is where the public gathering fails to exist when people cannot freely attend a particular event or function AND the event or function does not fall within any of the enumerated areas in 16-11-127 & 16-11-127.1

    Ofcourse this is all speculation and :ianal: even though I like to play one here on GA packing.org.

    And I am waiting for some of the true legal eagles of the board to come and tear my theory to shreds :oops:

    If you must carry, then I like Malum's advice: "I am not willing to openly carry up to the gate while a police officer is standing there . . . "

    Ofcourse, we're not advocating that you break the law.