Georgia Department of Labor

Discussion in 'Places Off-Limits' started by MWAG, May 24, 2019.

  1. MWAG

    MWAG Active Member

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    The Georgia Department of Labor building in Cartersville Georgia does not have a metal detector but it does have a gun Buster sign and a uniformed security guard on the inside...
    Can the uniform security guard lawfully askme to return my weapon to my car...
    Security guard is not a certified peace officer
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  2. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Issue #1
    Is that security officer screening for weapons? Is he restricting access to the building, or merely watching people come and go without any attempt to screen them or restrict them if they don't meet certain criteria for entry?

    Issue #2
    What is the effect of having a non-law-enforcement security officer tell you that you have failed to clear security at the screening checkpoint and you will not be allowed in with your firearm? The law says it takes a certified police officer to arrest you, but it doesn't say anything about giving you a criminal trespass notice & ordering you off the property (at least while you're armed).

    The law also does not say that a security guard can't bar you from entering-- physically blocking you and arresting you for assault & battery if you try to push past him.
     

  3. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    Write the Commission of Labor and ask if we can carry there. If not, then ask why.
     
  4. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Then the law changing the rules about carry in government buildings means almost nothing, if your interpretation is correct.


    I find it difficult to believe that such a momentous and monumental piece of legislation had so little effect on reality of the legal landscape when it comes to carrying.
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Here be the law.

    (e) (1) A license holder shall be authorized to carry a weapon in a government building when the government building is open for business and where ingress into such building is not restricted or screened by security personnel. A license holder who enters or attempts to enter a government building carrying a weapon where ingress is restricted or screened by security personnel shall be guilty of a misdemeanor if at least one member of such security personnel is certified as a peace officer pursuant to Chapter 8 of Title 35; provided, however, that a license holder who immediately exits such building or immediately leaves such location upon notification of his or her failure to clear security due to the carrying of a weapon shall not be guilty of violating this subsection or paragraph (1) of subsection (b) of this Code section. A person who is not a license holder and who attempts to enter a government building carrying a weapon shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.​
     
  6. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    gunsmoker's analysis runs like this. Read the first sentence. There is a grant of authority, but only if the building is not restricted or screened by security personnel. Note its says nothing in this first sentence about law enforcement.

    The second sentence has a misdemeanor crime, but only if one of the security is a law enforcement officer, and even then there is a method of escape.

    Last sentence = No license? Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.
     
  7. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    So in the first sentence, if the security lackey is "screening," then the grant of authority is gone. This grant of authority would normally be a rock solid defense to trespass.

    Without it, the guard can tell you to leave. Assuming he is acting as an agent for the owner, his demand that you leave means you leave or, if you refuse, you are violating the criminal trespass law.
     
  8. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Did I get it correct, Kurt?
     
  9. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    Does screening mean to include screening for concealed weapons, or can it be limited to just eyeballing for open carriers?
     
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  10. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Yes.

    Biggest picture general rule: "GWL holders can carry anywhere in GA."

    Narrowing that with the first level of exceptions: "But not at government buildings with screening at entrances. Such facilities are still off-limits and forbidden for carry at under this Code section."

    Second level modification (not quite a reversal or exception to the exception): "But unless one of the screeners is a cop or deputy, a GWL holder who carries into a screened government building shall not be arrested and has not committed a crime that can be prosecuted under this Code section." (Right to withdraw fits in here, too.)

    REALLY, this crazy contradictory language shows the incompetence of the legislature and or their negligence in being influenced by advocates for both for and against gun control resulting in this incomprehensible mess.

    All I can say is I hope the rule of lenity will favor in the interpretation that promotes liberty and non-prosecution of confused citizens. I fear that won't be the case, and any ambiguity in this stupid-ass law will be resolved in favor of the State having acted properly to protect innocent people (sheep) from gun nuts carrying their loaded weapons in public.
     
  11. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Good question. Nobody knows. The words on paper taken alone & at face value would indicate that just doing a visual scan of arriving visitors to the building would be sufficient --that's the type of screening. Anybody who doesn't look badshit crazy or is openly carrying a weapon gets let in. The other two categories of people will get stopped by security.

    I would prefer a different interpretation of the phrases used in this law. I think it's obvious that the intent of the law was to only ban law abiding permit holders from carrying in places where a criminal who wants to carry illegally would likely get stopped and prevented from doing that. So the goal was to only have the law enforced against law abiding citizens if it would be effectively enforced against bad guys, too. Mere signage about "no weapons allowed" does not disarm bad guys! Restricted entrances with security screening metal detectors and pat-downs does. We are all familiar with what real security screening looks like it's at pretty much every courthouse in Georgia, many other government buildings, and the Atlanta airport.
    THAT is the type of security screening that is likely to stop a bad guy from carrying illegally, so that should be the only type of screening that can be used to deny a law-abiding permit holder from carrying there too. Not some guard watching the crowd come and go, either in that same room or remotely through a security camera.
     
  12. Clark

    Clark Well-Known Member

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    It also sounds like if you get it in, it's only illegal if they find out and you don't immediately leave.
     
  13. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Could you include the full code section when quoting so those of us who haven't memorized the OCGA can look it up if needed? :mrgreen:
     
  14. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    16-11-127 is the O.C.G.A. code section about off-limits locations in general, and government buildings.
     
  15. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    MOE, you don't have to MEMORIZE anything.
    You've got my BOOK !!
    You don't have to memorize it,OCGA. The book has a "rapid fire contents" section and a "where to start reading" guide near the beginning of the book (it says to read the most important and often-invoked Code sections first, not in numerical order. And we ID the most important ones.)
     
  16. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    True but "(e) (1)" doesn't provide much of a starting place. It's like quoting "22:3-6" from the bible. :mrgreen:
     
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  17. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    If you knew gun laws like you know the Bible, giving a substantial quote which discusses a key concept in that section of the code book would give you an enormous clue as to what bible book or OCGA Code section it came from.


    Try it.


    Here are some scriptures. I won't say what book of the Bible they come from. But read them & the incomplete citation to chapter snd verse, then you can tell us the book of scripture.

    ***************
    Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: “I am now establishing my covenant with you and with your offspring after you, and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the animals, and all the living creatures of the earth with you, all those that came out of the ark—every living creature of the earth. Yes, I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all flesh be destroyed by the waters of a flood, and never again will a flood bring the earth to ruin.”
    (Chap. 9, verses 8 -11).

    *************

    Thus says the Lord, ‘By this you shall know that I am the Lord: behold, I will strike the water that is in the Nile with the staff that is in my hand, and it will be turned to blood. The fish that are in the Nile will die, and the Nile will become foul, and the Egyptians will find difficulty in drinking water from the Nile’” (Chapter 7, verses 17-18. )
    *************************

    He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

    Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    (Chapter 53, verses 3-5.)
    ****************
     
  18. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    One more:


    "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
    If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.


    (Chapter 2, verses 14-17.)
     
  19. mrhutch

    mrhutch Well-Known Member

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    Genesis, exodus, Isaiah, and James I believe...

    I ain't got time to memorize legal code like that myself, that's why I'm a member of a forum frequented by lawyers
     
  20. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    I lied. THIS is The last one. This makes five Bible quotes. How many can you identify out of the five ?

    Watch this 30 second scene from a famous Clint Eastwood movie. Just like the title of the movie itself, this scene references a New Testament scripture, chapter 6, verses 7 and 8.



    "When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and hell was following close behind him."


    You tell me-- From which book ?