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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This past Saturday my sister-in-law was in need of a handgun so I took her to a local sporting goods store that had a large selection for her to put hands on. This was her first purchase after I gave her a few lessons in safety and shooting. After she decided on the one she wanted she was given the ATF form 4473 to fill out. I was distracted by looking at another gun at the time and forgot to advise her to NOT put down her SSN on the form. After she got done I looked it over and noticed that she had filled out her SSN. I then requested a new form for her to fill out from the salesman behind the counter.

He asked "Why?"
Me: "She didn't know that the SSN was optional and she wrote her SSN in the box so we would like a new one."
Him: "Oh, well it's not a big deal. The government already has your SSN."
Me: "Yes, but you don't and it is not required on this form so we would like new one."

He reluctantly produced a new form and snatched the filled out form with the SSN out from under my fingers.

Me: "Wait, can I have that back?"
Him: "No."
Me: "Well can you shred it right now?"
Him: "No, we have to keep this on file."
Me: "Even though that's not the form being used to purchase this gun?"
Him: "Yes."

I was ignorant in this and it was near closing time. My sister in law also needed a gun for personal reasons ASAP. I didn't want to argue and make a big deal about it if I was wrong, but this doesn't make sense to me. The attitude of the salesman has definitely left a bad taste in my mouth and I will no longer purchase anything there or recommend anyone to purchase there in the future.

If they were wrong to do this please let me know and I will call down tomorrow and speak with the manager about this.

Thanks.
 

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I'm not sure but I think they do have to keep the forms.
I am sure someone will correct me in a minute if I'm wrong.
 

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This is from the instructions on the form.

14. After the seller has completed the firearms transaction, he or she must make the
completed, original ATF F 4473 (which includes the Important Notices, Instructions,
and Definitions), and any supporting documents, part of his or her permanent
records. Forms 4473 must be retained for at least 20 years. Filing may be
chronological (by date), alphabetical (by name), or numerical (by transaction
serial number), as long as all of the seller’s completed Forms 4473 are filed in the
same manner. FORMS 4473 FOR DENIED TRANSFERS MUST BE RETAINED: If the
transfer of a firearm is denied by NICS, or if for any other reason the transfer
does not go through after a NICS check is initiated, the licensee must retain the
ATF F 4473 in his or her records for at least 5 years. Forms 4473 with respect to
which a sale, delivery or transfer did not take place shall be separately retained
in alphabetical (by name) or chronological (by date of transferee’s certification)
order.
The seller might be thinking of the denied transfer I highlighted in blue, or it could be a requirement if the forms are numbered sequentially. Of course IANAL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah I'm not seeing where they would have to keep it or prevent someone from even scratching out the SSN.
 

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You can download the form all day long: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

If the background check wasn't called in, then what's the big deal here. The store employee was a DICK. I believe I would have whipped out my cell phone and called the police to report identity theft. Then I'd complain to the ATF, SSN folks, etc.

Should have spent the money elsewhere. And where did this take place?
 

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I would go in and request it from someone other than the sales clerk. I do not believe they have to keep every single one on file if it was an accident in filling out the form and that form was replaced with another that was used in processing the NICS check.

They have to keep forms that were used to run a NICS check whether the check results in an approved or denied. I don't think they have to keep the ones where you incorrectly filled some part of it out and you start a new one with the correct info.

Or you could just scold your sis-in-law about blindly putting her SSN on a form without checking to see if it must be there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I was concerned for her because she was ignorant and hadn't really understood why she shouldn't put it there. She now knows why and is also concerned.

I will call her up and the manager tomorrow.
 

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They didn't need to keep it on file unless they called in the background check. At the point where you decided to not put down the SSN, you could have lined through it.

Come to my shop - not only will you get a better deal on a handgun, but you will also be treated with respect. We're in Marietta.

Dan

PS - If you stop by the shop, please feel free to work with ANY of my folks. They are all highly trained in all things 4473.
 

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riggz said:
I was concerned for her because she was ignorant and hadn't really understood why she shouldn't put it there. She now knows why and is also concerned.

I will call her up and the manager tomorrow.
WHERE did this happen?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Let's just say it's a large retailer located in Smryna....
 

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I don't believe that the 4473 would need to be retained if it was not used to run a background check/ purchase a firearm. I have shredded 4473's in the past if the customer made a mistake on the form or decided they didn't want to buy a gun before I called NICS.
 

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riggz said:
Let's just say it's a large retailer located in Smryna....
Why not just say who it is? This is not the clarke howard show where company names should not be mentioned......... Jeeez, lets look out for one another instead of worrying about mentioning a company name!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
chainsaw123 said:
riggz said:
Let's just say it's a large retailer located in Smryna....
Why not just say who it is? This is not the clarke howard show where company names should not be mentioned......... Jeeez, lets look out for one another instead of worrying about mentioning a company name!
I thought it was pretty obvious that it's Adventure Outdoors...
 

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riggz said:
chainsaw123 said:
riggz said:
Let's just say it's a large retailer located in Smryna....
Why not just say who it is? This is not the clarke howard show where company names should not be mentioned......... Jeeez, lets look out for one another instead of worrying about mentioning a company name!
I thought it was pretty obvious that it's Adventure Outdoors...
not to everyone here though. and thanks cause I NEVER even go there so I was not sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yeah, I've purchased one gun there and didn't intend for my sister in law to buy a gun this past weekend, but she was ready to buy right then and wanted what she wanted. I just wanted her to be able to put hands on as many different type of guns as possible. Now I will just never go there period.
 

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If I have to do a background check I usually ask the customer to give the last 4 digits (eliminates similar name confusion) and then when the check is done IN FRONT OF THE CUSTOMER I completely black out the number.

If customers don't want to provide...no problem. The employee was being an a$$. 4473's are not numbered and you only retain the copy that has the MICS data on it. :roll:
 

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SPEAKING OF the FORM 4473 and how dealers interpret BATF regulations:

One day several years back I went to a popular gun store in Smyrna and bought a pistol.

They made me put my SSN on the Form 4473 over my objection, even though I told them it wasn't necessary and I'd take the risk that I might be mistaken for some bad guy with the same name and DOB as me. But they insisted on a Social Security Number or they wouldn't do the sale. I wanted the gun and it was a fairly odd model so I just did it. And if I recall correctly, they wouldn't let me sign my name with my first name, middle initial, last name, like I do on everything else (including all my legal pleadings I submit to the highest courts in the state!). They told me I 'had to' sign my name exactly as it appears on my driver's license. I argued, but they insisted, and I wanted the gun, so I did it their way.

But I wish they would not make up rules above and beyond what the feds require, and I expect them to know the law and follow the law, and not try to justify imposing a cover-your-Ash store policy as "the federal law."

Rant over.

P.S. I still have the gun and I still carry it and I'm happy I got the right gun for the right price back then.
 
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