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Member Georgia Carry
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Member Georgia Carry
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If you have family or friends in Florida, get them on the ball to call and email their lawmakers to get this thing passed! Post on Facebook, Twitter, Google Plus, Blogs, Forums, etc!
 

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Not sure I dig that "display upon demand" of a LEO, though. Perhaps the courts will interpret that "demand" can only be done upon lawful detainment.
That's the same problem TX residents are having with their new OC law. Some cops are going to ask for the license only if they believe the citizen is engaging in suspicious behavior. Others are going to harass the crap out of citizens because they'll view OC as prima facie evidence of committing the crime of OCing a gun without license. In other words, guilty until proven innocent.
 

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Not sure I dig that "display upon demand" of a LEO, though. Perhaps the courts will interpret that "demand" can only be done upon lawful detainment.
Well, now, that is existing law. it is nothing new. How is it being interpreted already?
 

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Well, now, that is existing law. it is nothing new. How is it being interpreted already?
Florida has more than one appeals courts, unlike Georgia. It is a district system. There is a split in the circuits.

4th District.
Regalado v. State, 25 So.3d 600 (Fla. 4th DCA 2009)
Because it is legal to carry a concealed weapon in Florida, if one has a permit to do so, and no information of suspicious criminal activity was provided to the officer other than appellant's possession of a gun, the mere possession of a weapon, without more, cannot justify a Terry stop.
http://www.4dca.org/opinions/Dec 2009/12-16-09/4D08-1609.op.pdf

3rd District
State v. Navarro, 464 So.2d 137, 139-40 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1985)
officers' observation of the outline of a firearm amounted to probable cause to believe that [the defendant] was carrying a concealed weapon, justifying not merely a pat-down, but a search
5th Circuit
State v. Burgos, 994 So. 2d 1212, 1214 (Fla. 5th DCA 2008)
Although some citizens do have the right to carry concealed firearms lawfully, the vast majority do not
 

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Oh, wait! =; It appears the Supreme Court resolved the split in 2013.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1647018.html

First, Florida's legislative scheme causes us to hold that licensure is an affirmative defense to a charged crime of carrying a concealed weapon, as codified at section 790.01, Florida Statutes (2013),5 and the lack of a license is not an element of the crime. This conclusion is based upon a clear reading of section 790 .01 and consideration of its structure, the chapter of the Florida Statutes that governs firearms and other weapons, and the legal precedent on this issue. Notwithstanding this holding, we have determined that the role of licensure in the Florida legislative scheme is not dispositive of the resolution of the legality of the stop of Mackey. Instead, this matter can be addressed solely by reference to Fourth Amendment precedent from the United States Supreme Court and the totality of the circumstances presented by this case.
 

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Well, now, that is existing law. it is nothing new. How is it being interpreted already?
Yes, it's existing law - FS 790.06(1):
The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer.
Like I said above, some (I think a lot) cops are just going to harass the crap out of open carriers just because they can. Particularly in the blue counties where many agencies are anti-OC.
 

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The record reflects that on the day in question, Officer May was patrolling in an area of Miami that is known for narcotics and firearms. Officer May explained that when he patrols, he observes hand gestures, waistbands, and pockets, "especially in that area." It was in that geographic location that he observed Mackey with a firearm in his pocket. Officer May stopped his vehicle and approached Mackey to speak with him. Office May explained that he did not draw his service weapon because he could observe Mackey's hands. No suspicion of illegal activity was necessary at this stage of the encounter because the United States Supreme Court has explained that "a seizure does not occur simply because a police officer approaches an individual and asks a few questions. So long as a reasonable person would feel free 'to disregard the police and go about his business,' California v. Hodari D., 499 U.S. 621, 628, (1991), the encounter is consensual and no reasonable suspicion is required." Florida v. Bostick, 501 U.S. 429, 434 (1991).

However, when Officer May began to speak with Mackey, the nature of the encounter changed. When Officer May asked "if [Mackey] had anything on him," Mackey responded in the negative. Officer May's observations had already identified a firearm in Mackey's pocket and, therefore, he knew that Mackey was lying. When the person blatantly lied to the police officer here about possession of a firearm while he was in a geographic area well known for illegal narcotics and firearms with the weapon in view, we conclude that the officer had a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the person may have been engaged in illegal activity, and this brief detention to further investigate whether a crime was being committed is constitutionally valid. Further, if a police officer suspects that an armed individual is engaged in illegal activity, it is entirely reasonable for the officer to have concerns for his personal safety and the safety of those around him.
Given these circumstances, I am not sure how much enlightenment this gives the legal carrier, especially if openly carrying becomes legal, as to his status of being detained by every officer that sees him and holds a grudge against those carrying openly.

But there is this hopeful bit at the end, specifically addressing the holding in Regalado:
The Conflict Case

Based on the prior analysis, we conclude that the decision in Regalado is factually distinguishable from the decision below. Here, Officer May initially approached Mackey in a non-threatening manner and participated in a consensual encounter. It was Mackey's response to a question asked by Officer May during the consensual encounter that led Officer May to reasonably and articulably suspect that Mackey might be engaged in illegal activity. On the other hand, in Regalado, the officer stopped the defendant at gunpoint and ordered him to the ground solely on the basis that the officer believed the defendant was carrying a firearm in the waistband of his pants. Regalado, 25 So.3d at 601-02. The officer did not ask the defendant any questions, and the Fourth District Court of Appeal specifically noted that "no information of suspicious criminal activity was provided to the officer other than appellant's possession of a gun." Id. at 601. Given the differing factual circumstances that preceded the two different stops at issue, we conclude that even though the decisions appear to be in conflict, the cases can be reconciled, and no actual conflict exists.
 

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Is that an approval of the Fourth Circuit's holding in Regalado? I don't know. it certainly hints that way.
 

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Look for my next Ammoland.com article on Florida Open Carry and Campus Carry soon. It's gonna be a hard hitting, take no prisoners article.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

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Anyone know of any conservative/libertarian TV news anchors in Florida?
 

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Contact Florida Carry. They might know some bodies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

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Well, if nothing else, they're being consistent in not being able to accomplish anything. :hardhead:
 
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