I have been openly carrying for almost 2 years now. Last Friday, my friend and I decided to grill some steaks for our families. We went to the Piggly Wiggly here in LaGrange to buy them. I was openly carrying my XD45 in a Serpa holster. As I walked through the door I am immediately confronted by a Troup County Sheriff's Deputy who is on duty there as a security guard. He immediately told me that I had to leave my gun in the car. I thought that I misunderstood him and asked him to repeat himself to which he said the same thing. All I said was "Okay" and immediately went back to my car and left. I wasn't about to leave my firearm in my car unattended. End of encounter. I didn't get his name and I don't really see any need even though it wouldn't be too hard to get it. I know one of the other deputies who works security there. In fact, I sold him a Glock 21. Then I went all the way across town to GCO sponsor Kroger and purchased my steaks. I'm glad I did, because they had them on special. Saturday morning, I went and talked to the manager of the store to inquire what the store policy is on customers carrying firearms. (Unarmed of course.) He said that as far as he knew, there was no policy as he had never had this happen before. This pretty much confirmed my suspicions that the deputy had enforced his own policy. I guess that is the part that really goads me. He didn't ask me to cover it up, he just said that I have to leave it in the car. I definitely was not about to stand there and argue with him. The manager told me that he would call the owner of the store since it was rather early in the a.m. and that he would call me me back. We had a nice conversation for a few minutes and I left. I have the conversation recorded on my digital audio recorder. The manager called me back a couple of hours later. He told me that the owner would prefer that I CC. I told him that I have no problem with this and will CC from now on as I respect his property rights. I told him that I always carry in accordance with Georgia law unless I know the property owners preferences in advance. He understood when I explained it would be extremely time consuming to try to call around to all the places I visit and ask for their policy. (I know this horse has been beat to death on here.) I e-mailed Piggly Wiggly corporate just to clarify things and they said that each store is individually owned and can therefore set their own policies. CC'ing there is fine with me. As long as my firearm is welcome in his store, I will continue to shop there. On a side note, the Piggly Wiggly manager also told me that he called the managers of the local Publix and Kroger to ascertain their policies. I was actually alarmed when he told me that the manager of Kroger said that he would confront anyone carrying openly in his store but that he would have to check with security for their policy. All-in-all not a terribly bad experience but not a great one either. I didn't get a shiny new pair of bracelets or a night in the crossbar hotel.
So the LEO was just acting on his own beliefs, and not the policy of the store? That doesn't sound good.
Did the manager/owner state they would make the security guard aware of their policy? If not, the whole conversation was for naught.
If the off duty LEO steps up and states you have to leave it in the car what recourse is there other than obeying, or leaving? In this case the LEO was wrong. Should his/her authority be challenged?
Yes, but the proper way to challenge his authority is not by standing there and arguing with him. As a security guard employed by the store, he can ask you to leave the premises if he sees fit. If you have a problem with his decision, you should take it up with his supervisor at a later time. At the end of the day, this is private property, and you have no inherent right to be there. If the store makes the mistake of employing a security guard that wrongfully uses his authority to ask people to leave, you still have to leave, but a reasonable store will allow you to address the situation later.
None really. He may be off duty as far as the PD is concerned, but is acting in an official capacity for the store. Not then and there. Standing and arguing after being told to leave/remove the weapon from the building is a criminal act and can get you It would be criminal trespassing.
I can tell you what Publix's policy is, because I have personally talked to the Publix District Manager for Georgia, Kevin Thornton, about it. In short, Publix permits licensed carriers to concealed-carry in Publix stores with no problems, but prefers that open-carry be limited to uniformed LEOs only. He stressed 'prefers', not 'must', and I occasionally OC into a midtown-Atlanta Publix (at Ansley Mall) with no issues (the Fulton County Sheriff's Office deputy there has no problem with it either, and is in fact a G.C.O. member). This is not Kevin's policy, but Publix's - he contacted their Security department in Lakeland, Florida, to obtain the corporate policy before he returned my call. Teeter
You can ask him if the store owner manager asked him to not allow carry? Even better if you can pop out a camera and film his response.
Guys, If a LEO is working an approved extra job he's not off-duty. He's on-duty but getting paid by someone other than his department.
Perhaps that would explain the Publix employee who looked at me and said (loudly enough for everybody in our immediate vicinity to hear): "Day-um he got a big gun!" On Monday when I was picking up my Caramel Pecan Crunch cake for my 44th birthday. I just smiled and retrieved my cake.... I half expected a Cobb County Sheriff to be outside when I was leaving.
Yep.. Pack your bags and walk out if ever confronted by on duty security or anyone for that matter who works for the store in question. It could be a 16 year old stocking eggs. If he/she asks you to leave and they WORK there then you better hitch your trailer and ride out as quickly as possible. Any hesitation will cost you a ride to the slammer and some lawyer bills. All stores are private property and if for any reason someone asks you to leave and that person works there, then do it. Don't argue, don't try to change their mind, just go straight to the door and you decide if its important enough for you to return without your weapon. Honestly I shop at krogers for all of my food needs, the ladies in there are MORE than happy for me to drop by after work. They all know I carry, and have even had me speak to the store manager in a great conversation just to let him know I appreciate Krogers for being a GCO sponsor and allowing us to carry in their stores. The deputy in question needs a spankin and shown that no matter how much he loves expressing his authority on "civilians" that he can come back to bite him in the LE need to realize we pay their salary and we buy all those beautiful toys they get to play with. Treat us with respect and you will get it in return. It's not their job to express their opinions to us, and for damn sure can't go around making up new rules and laws.
I bring up the point of off duty because his capacity has changed, unless a visible crime is committed. By challenging the LEO I mean should a request to speak to the managment be requested then, to determine the LEO is not enforcing his/her own policy? I think this happened recently and discussed on the board. I agree that not arguing and obeying a request to leave is the best course of action.
Don't request to speak to anyone until after you leave or come back without your weapon. You can easily go to your car and place your weapon in the glove box, come back and go speak to a manager or supervisor. Once the matter is cleared up you can make the choice as to going back in with your weapon or leaving in general.
Nope, none. A deputy's authority is not diminished by his duty status. He would have arrest powers throughout the entire state, regardless if he is on the clock or not. A police officer has 24/7 arrest powers in his jurisdiction, regardless of his duty status. So, off duty+working uniformed security in one's jurisdiction= no conflict.
I'm quite sure any business would frown upon any security keeping an unarmed citizen from the store to spend $$$. Again the way I would handle this, walk out place the gun in my glove box make sure I was completely unarmed, then return to speak with a supervisor. But for the most part if the officer tells you to NOT come back then I would head his warning and return the next day unarmed. The poster above does have a valid point it really depends on how he words it.