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kkennett said:
Here's an interesting article from Dave Kopel on the armed resistance of the Armenians to the WWI atrocities of the Turks. We are but fools if we think that civilization will never repeat these sorts of acts.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=N2 ... RlNWRlMzk=
It was a party within the Turkish government, not the Turks as a whole. That's like saying blaming Germans for the Holocaust.
 

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budder said:
kkennett said:
Here's an interesting article from Dave Kopel on the armed resistance of the Armenians to the WWI atrocities of the Turks. We are but fools if we think that civilization will never repeat these sorts of acts.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=N2 ... RlNWRlMzk=
It was a party within the Turkish government, not the Turks as a whole. That's like saying blaming Germans for the Holocaust.
Please don't say Turkish government or a party within cause whatever happened preceded the Turkish government by more than a decade. Having had relatives on both sides of the this so called "genocide" it really isn't such a simple thing to classify.

Also, trying to force Turkish Republic to own up to an event that was in the time of the Empire that very government forceably wiped out is ironic and idiotic at the same time.

He does have one point in that, you want to control the masses, better make sure they are unarmed and unable to resist.

Unable to resist part is being handled by the media and the crappy education system, in that the new generations is too stupid to realize what is going on, or too distracted by Paris Hilton's daily adventures to care.
 

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Armed resistance movements also sprang up in Ourfa, in Shadakh, and in the Pesan Valley. At Van, a group of 1,500 men with only 300 rifles fought off an army of 5,000 Turkish soldiers, and diverted the attention of Turkish troops away from the Russian enemy. The defenders at Van successfully held out for five weeks until they were rescued by the Russian army.
Inspirational!

But shortly after, the Russian army made an unexpected retreat, allowing the Turks to swoop in by surprise and kill the 55,000 people of Van.
Parallels to current day Iraq?

I'm starting to figure out that it's not the fanny pack wearing idiots in sleeveless NASCAR shirts standing in an Irish pub asking, "Is there any REAL football on?" that creates ugly American perceptions.

It's our g*ddamned politicians that wouldn't know a Byzantine from a Turk from an ottoman from an arab from a persian.
 

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Well, it's not just the politicians. There are many Americans who think that Iraq and not Taliban was behind 9/11. That's not a joke. I have coworkers who mentioned this at work :shock: , college educated, middle class Americans.
 

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tace said:
Well, it's not just the politicians. There are many Americans who think that Iraq and not Taliban was behind 9/11. That's not a joke. I have coworkers who mentioned this at work :shock: , college educated, middle class Americans.
And just as many Americans that believe Iraq was a secular government that gave no aid and comfort to the Islamists. Plenty of tin foil hats to go around on both sides.
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
tace said:
. . . so called "genocide" it really isn't such a simple thing to classify.
Do David Kopel, Paul Gallant, and Joanne D. Eisen oversimplify things in their article?
What they seem to ignore is that the Ottoman Empire was in the middle of WW I and fighting on multiple fronts when a part of their population started to rebel and aid the enemy, namely Russians and the French.

I am not saying how Ottoman Empire handled the rebellions was appropriate but it seems to me that the authors are making it out like it was the strict intention of the Ottomans to wipe out all Armenians, like Hitler with Jews. Having read a lot of Ottoman Empire history I can't believe such a thing was the intention of the Sultan. On the other hand, Ottomans had a policy of relocating large groups of minorities to other parts of the Empire to eliminate unrest in sections. They have moved many Islamic tribes to the Balkans and those ppl were the ones who were being systematically persecuted (genocide anyone?) in the Yugoslav Republic and Bulgaria in the recent decades.
 
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