Fingerprinting

Discussion in 'General GWL Questions' started by Malum Prohibitum, Jan 16, 2007.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    <strike>12 states do not require fingerprinting.

    AK, AZ, ID, IN, KY, MI, MO, NC, OK, TN, UT, VA

    Of those, the feds accept as an exemption to the NICS check at the point of purchase:

    AK, AR, ID, MI, NC, UT</strike>

    Edit: ALL THE INFORMATION ABOVE IS WRONG. LOOK BELOW AT THE SIXTH POST TO GET A MORE CORRECT LIST.

    Philip Van Cleave, of VCDL informs me that Virginia is not on the exempt list because Virginia grants licenses to those convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence, and VCDL has fought hard to keep it that way. In other words, it has nothing to do with fingerprinting.

    Accordingly, Georgia is simply on the wrong track on this issue. I would like to see the fingerprinting requirement removed from O.C.G.A. 16-11-129, at least for renewal applicants and possibly from first time applicants as well.
     
  2. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    Clearly, we need to re-fingerprint all "renewal" applicants in case their prints have changed in the preceeding 5 years.
     

  3. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    Re-fingerprinting is just a waste of time and money..... :evil:
     
  4. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    But what about all the Men In Black that had their finger prints erased? Surely we need to know about them.

    :D

    [​IMG]

    Does the GFL cover ray guns? :lol:
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Mike from Philly has updated information.
     
  6. Mike from Philly

    Mike from Philly New Member

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    Here is an updated listing.

    I used packing.org as the source of my information.


    States that require fingerprints
    ------------------------------------

    AK AZ AR CO CT FL GA ID IN IA KS LA MA MI MS MO NV NJ
    NM NY NC ND OH OK OR RI SC TX WA WY



    States that use Government Issued ID's instead of fingerprints
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ME KY MD MN MT NH PA SD TN UT VA WV


    States that use either Police Investigators or Personal References instead of fingerprints
    -------------------------------------------
    AL, CA, DE
     
  7. Mike from Philly

    Mike from Philly New Member

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    BTW, not only is fingerprinting an antiquated requirement, it is useless in the 21st Century where we have photographic ID's and massive computer databases accessible in Police Cars.

    Think about it ..... if a LEO gets a call about a "man with a gun". He will stop and investigate you. One of the checks will be through the Georgia Criminal Justice Information System (CJIS). If you are legal, you'll be on your merry way. If you are wanted for the Bank Robbery that you did after receiving your License, you are going to jail. That laminated piece of paper (aka GFL) will be long forgotten.

    The fingerprint process is Security Theater. Its a snap shot in time. It does nothing but make the Politicians and Probate Judges feel good. Interestingly, most police cars have better technology and more resources than the Probate Courts.
     
  8. Tinkerhell

    Tinkerhell Active Member

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    There is an amusing question, just for the sake of asking.
    The definition of a gun seems to revolve a good bit around the discharge (shooting or expelling) of a projectile. A beam of light is not a projectile (or if it is then every person in the world with a flashlight has a firearm).

    If we could come up with a handy dandy laser pistol, ala star wars/trek style it wouldn't really fall under the definition of a firearm. I mean hey it's just a fancy, very tightly focused flashlight beam right?
    That is the answer to all the issues we have with the current laws!!
    We could carry a laser any way any how we wanted. :twisted:

    Now we just need to get one designed that doesn't require carrying a huge generator and a heat resistent backpack... :wink:
     
  9. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Who cares what resources and technology the probate courts have? The statute does not say a d@*n thing about probate courts doing any kind of background check. Rather, 129(d)(1) and (2) state that the probate judge is to request certain checks from the law enforcement agency doing the fingerprinting.

    Subsection 129(d)(4) states that the law enforcement agency has 50 days to return a report to the judge, unless no derogatory information is discovered, in which case a report shall not be required.

    So the probate judges are saying they must wait for a required report that is not, in fact, required.

    This whole sham about the probate courts running background checks is just something the probate judges made up to justify taking longer than 60 days. The statute does not authorize a probate judge to do anything but request the background check from the friendly local sheriff. That may take no longer than 50 days, and the Sheriff is not required to return a report unless there is derogatory information.




    :|


     
  10. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    With the new NICS check in place, the General Assembly should simply repeal the fingerprinting provisions. The renewal license fingerprinting was added only because somebody mistakenly thought it was needed to requalify Georgia's license as something that would exempt its holders from a NICS check at the point of purchase of a firearm. It wasn't. The NICS check was (no need to run a NICS check at purchase for someone who has already had NICS run).

    With only the NICS check, the license would still be exempt, and they could shorten the license issuance time to 24 hours.
     
  11. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    You are forgeting that it would be $24-$29 ($24 GBI and possible $5 to the fingerprinter) cheaper to not have to have fingerprints taken then sent off to the GBI.

    Edit by GS1: I can't add
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    We could be the cheapest license in the nation! :D
     
  13. Mike from Philly

    Mike from Philly New Member

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    Efficent government!!! The hallmark of the Republicans. Any Republicans listening?

    Going with the NICS check makes sense since it mirrors the requirement to buy a gun. If you can buy a gun, you should be legal to carry it. My only concern is that there is no "due process" way to appeal a denial.

    A little history about the licensing requirements in our law:

    1910 - the License requirement is added to the law. License allows open carry only. Concealed Carry is illegal. Fee was $0.50 and a $100 bond to the Governor. It was 'may' issue. Thus if the Ordinary (aka probate judge) didn't like you, he didnt have to issue the license.

    1968 - the entire criminal code was re-written. License allows open carry and plain sight car carry. Concealed Carry still illegal. Fee was $3 and $300 bond to the Governor. It was 'may' issue. Felons banned for 10 years, forcible misdeamor for 2 years. No licenses for the mentally incompetent.

    1976 - significant re-write of the law. License allows open carry and concealed carry. No license needed for plain sight car carry and glovebox car carry. Fee was $15. It had 'may' issue at the beginning of the section and 'shall' issue if no bad information is received. Felons banned for 10 years, forcible misdeamor for 2 years. Fugitives and folks arrested but not tried are now banned. Drunks, Druggies, and mentally ill folk are banned Fingerprint requirement added. Good moral character provision in the law. This is very similar to the current law. (this is disgusting that this passed in the bicentential year - Don't these guys know that first shots fired during the Revolution was to prevent the British from confiscating privately owned guns)

    1983 - Fingerprints now sent to FBI and we are required to sign a waiver for them to check hospitalization records (must be a result of Hickley shooting President Reagan). Temporary license added.

    1990 - GBI/FBI can now charge $30
     
  14. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    The "county ordinary" also had the discretion over whether to accept the surety providing the bond. The statute said the surety must be approved by the ordinary. There were lots of non-race based reasons the "ordinary" could use to justify denying the license.
     
  15. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/bradylaw/permit_chart.htm

    Out of these 15 that Mike from Philly reports do not take fingerprints, the licenses exempt from NICS that do not have any fingerpints taken are the following three:

    MT, SD, UT
     
  16. Mike from Philly

    Mike from Philly New Member

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    Exemption from NCIS should not be a driver for concealed carry in GA. HB1032 proved that point. We saved $5 but it increased the hassel of getting a renewal and cost us extra money. Frankly, the sponsors of that bill need to fix thier mess but alas they won't.

    In my last purchases, the dealer ran me through NCIS even though I presented my License. I asked why and they said the ATF has been harrassing dealers on paperwork. In order to avoid issues, they implemented the policy of calling in every sale. That way there is no doubt about compliance. The NCIS check doesn't cost anything so its cheap insurance for them to prevent ATF hassles.

    Back to fingerprinting, in a time before photographic ID's and criminal information databases this requirement made some sense to make sure who you say you are is really you. But now, its useless since we all have Photographic Drivers Licenses which have already confirmed we are who we claim we are. The databases available can quickly identify if you are a criminal.
     
  17. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Um, yes. And NICS is just the database to do that. Because it is instant. And it can be run just on a photo i.d. So I am not sure I understand your point.

    HB 1032 added fingerprinting for the other databases. That is the problem, not the NICS check.

    Get rid of those other, fingerprint-based checks, and just do a NICS check. NICS already contains all the data that was in those other databases. Right now everything is being done redundantly.
     
  18. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

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    Thanks Mike
    See I told y'all we had shall Issue and CC back before 83. Just like the Probate Judges we had an AG who couldn't read and came out with a ruling around 82 that because the law did not specifically state the weapon could be concealed then maybe it could not. He forgot the basic principle that if the law doesn't say it is illegal it is not. Glad to see Bowers gone from the scene.
     
  19. sheckigreen

    sheckigreen New Member

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    just saw this post in passing...this is regarding a CCL application, right? If so, NC DOES require fingerprinting. I know because i was last week. FYI...
     
  20. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    The first post is in error. It is corrected subsequently.