[dunkel]

A female coworker of mine has expressed interest in purchasing a handgun (a glock :-( ). However, she lives with a family member who is a felon. I only have a vague understanding of the laws, as I've never had to deal with this situation myself. I told her I thought she would be ok as long as he did not have access to it, but that I wasn't sure and would try to find out.

So what does she need to know?

 

[68908]

I haven't studied the law on this in depth or anything, but I seem to remember reading that the felon cannot have immediate access to the weapon. Take that how you want, but if you're living with a felon, I think that may make it kind of hard.

I guess the firearm would have to be on her person, or in a safe, that only she knows the combo to at all times. IANAL, and I'm not even 100% sure about this. Hopefully, one of our legal eagles will be around to clarify the legal aspects of such a thing.

 

[ookoshi]

You'll need to read up on laws regarding "constructive possession." EJR is on the right track here. Generally, he has constructive possession of anything in the home he lives in, unless it is locked in a way he cannot have access to it (safe or lockbox in which he does not have the combination or key), or it is on her person. However, there are a lot of legal nuances to constructive possession that one would need to research or perhaps even ask a lawyer about.

 

[gunsmoker]

I agree with all of the above. I would recommend that the weapon be kept in a way that ONLY she can lay her hands on it. If he has the physical capability of touching the gun without having to break through a locked door or pry open a gun cabinet or strongbox, I think it's too risky. The law might find him in "constructive possession" of it.
But it could go the other way, too. Recently somebody posted a court opinion where the court found insufficient evidence that a felon husband possessed his wife's rifle that she stored in the corner of the closet where anybody could grab it. I think that husband got lucky, or the judge was biased in favor of liberty and prejudiced against gun control laws!

 

[JMan]

A felon can't live in a home where there is firearms,ammo etc . NOW if he is on Parole or Probation then 110% he can't live there . The owner can do what ever , but the person(felon) will be the one that gets the rap .

 

[drtybykr]

A felon can't live in a home where there is firearms,ammo etc . NOW if he is on Parole or Probation then 110% he can't live there . The owner can do what ever , but the person(felon) will be the one that gets the rap .

Can you cite that in the law, or is it just 110% opinion?

 

[JMan]

A felon can't live in a home where there is firearms,ammo etc . NOW if he is on Parole or Probation then 110% he can't live there . The owner can do what ever , but the person(felon) will be the one that gets the rap .

Can you cite that in the law, or is it just 110% opinion?

You can google it yourself But if the Felon is on Parole and or Probation He can not be around guns, ammo , any weapons .

ALL convicted felons are not allowed to be around weapons that is federal

 

[elandil]

A felon can't live in a home where there is firearms,ammo etc . NOW if he is on Parole or Probation then 110% he can't live there . The owner can do what ever , but the person(felon) will be the one that gets the rap .

You can google it yourself But if the Felon is on Parole and or Probation He can not be around guns, ammo , any weapons .
ALL convicted felons are not allowed to be around weapons that is federal

Actually, the wording used in probationary cases is " The probationer shall not purchase, posess, or transport any firearms, ammunition, or any offensive weapons."

So, essentially, exactly what the law says. if it's locked up it cannot be said he or she is in posession.

Of course, they also cannot have bows, crossbows, knives, dirks, swords, nunchaku, etc. Not to mention alcohol, or any prescription drugs without notifying the Probation officer of said prescription.

Of course, i've asked many a probation officer exactly what an offensive weapon is, and never been able to get a straight answer. So, that should tell you something.

 

[TippinTaco]

A felon can't live in a home where there is firearms,ammo etc . NOW if he is on Parole or Probation then 110% he can't live there . The owner can do what ever , but the person(felon) will be the one that gets the rap .

Can you cite that in the law, or is it just 110% opinion?

You can google it yourself But if the Felon is on Parole and or Probation He can not be around guns, ammo , any weapons .

ALL convicted felons are not allowed to be around weapons that is federal

I laughed at this. There is no law citing tech5's opinion. The law states that the felon can't have access to ammo and firearms. INAL but the way I've always understood this is exactly how EJR above explained it. As long as these weapons are in a safe or some sort of container, then the gun owner would be fine. This could change if a judge or probation officer tried to push the issue further.

 

[mpc]

A felon can't live in a home where there is firearms,ammo etc . NOW if he is on Parole or Probation then 110% he can't live there . The owner can do what ever , but the person(felon) will be the one that gets the rap .

So, if a wife wanted to send her felon husband back to prison, all she'd have to do is buy a gun and keep it in the house? There has to be more to the law than that.

 

[NTA]

G. Gordon Liddy, convicted felon from the Nixon Watergate days says publicly that he is prohibited from owning firearms.
But that his wife has a terrific collection of them.

 

[ookoshi]

So, if a wife wanted to send her felon husband back to prison, all she'd have to do is buy a gun and keep it in the house? There has to be more to the law than that.

Technically and legally speaking, yes.

There's a post on this board from like a year ago where a parole officer was trying to make a point to a person on probation about how she (I think it was a she) was the one in control of his life. The officer drew her firearm, placed it on the table between her and the person and said "You know I could violate you right now and send you back to jail right?" Basically, she's claiming that once she took her hands off the weapon, they both legally had constructive possession of the firearm. And while no judge would violate someone's probation on such a fabricated technicality, from a pure legal perspective, she isn't wrong.

Constructive possession is a legal fiction that demonstrates exactly why you should never consent to a search of your home or your vehicle, as things that are inside are legally your responsibility even if you had no clue they were there.

 

[gunsmoker]

Constructive possession requires the State to show the felon "intended" to exercise "dominion and control" over the thing.
Naturally, since we aren't mind readers, the way intent is normally shown in court is through circumstantial evidence.

If the felon in question was never a gun owner during his life, never used a gun in a crime, and none of his hobbies included hunting, shooting, or gun collecting, that felon has a good defense. The State will have a hard time showing the gun the Wife bought is something he intended to have available for HIS use.

If the felon is one of us... a gun lover... somebody who used to own a bunch of guns and who likes talking about them... it will be a lot easier for the court to find that we had the intent to have joint control over that gun Wife bought.

 

[dunkel]

Im seeing the trend here. The harder it is for the family member to get to the gun, the better. A small safe in her closet, to which he does not have key or combination, might be a good idea. Not even knowing it's there is better.

I'll direct her to this discussion and see what she thinks. Thanks.

 

[jreXD9]

G. Gordon didn't need a gun to kill you with. He could do it with a pencil. He said so.

 

[mountainpass]

A felon can't live in a home where there is firearms,ammo etc . NOW if he is on Parole or Probation then 110% he can't live there . The owner can do what ever , but the person(felon) will be the one that gets the rap .

Can you cite that in the law, or is it just 110% opinion?

You can google it yourself But if the Felon is on Parole and or Probation He can not be around guns, ammo , any weapons .

ALL convicted felons are not allowed to be around weapons that is federal

I laughed at this. There is no law citing tech5's opinion. The law states that the felon can't have access to ammo and firearms. INAL but the way I've always understood this is exactly how EJR above explained it. As long as these weapons are in a safe or some sort of container, then the gun owner would be fine. This could change if a judge or probation officer tried to push the issue further.

Tippin, how do you feel if the judge ruled that the spouse of the felon was guilty of a deficient "GMC" by marrying a felon in the first place? Thus losing her rights because of her "poor GMC."

 

[grumpy]

There's a post on this board from like a year ago where a parole officer was trying to make a point to a person on probation about how she (I think it was a she) was the one in control of his life. The officer drew her firearm, placed it on the table between her and the person and said "You know I could violate you right now and send you back to jail right?" Basically, she's claiming that once she took her hands off the weapon, they both legally had constructive possession of the firearm. And while no judge would violate someone's probation on such a fabricated technicality, from a pure legal perspective, she isn't wrong.

Oooh, oooh, I know where this came from... :mrgreen:

 

[gunsmoker]

So the other day I talked to a Georgia felon on parole, and he said that his parole officer explained their agency's interpretation of the "no weapons" rule, and said it's NOT just for people on "parole" but also for people on "probation" too.
No being around any privately-owned guns. Cops' guns are ok. They can have an armed agent of the state visit them, at home or work. But if an armed private citizen, even one with a carry license, or even a State-licensed private armed guard or private detective were to visit the felon, that felon would be in violation of parole / probation and could be revoked-- sent back to prison.

(Keep in mind that all the cases I know of that have worked their way through the court system about "constructive possession" of guns by felons have involved the state alleging A NEW CRIME by said possession, not simply that the felon broke a RULE of the probation or parole agencies. So this may be a gray area, legally.)

A parole / probation felon can't be near a privately-owned gun UNLESS the gun is (1) in a private residence,
(2) locked in a gun safe. The felon can't ride in a vehicle which contains a gun, even if the gun is worn on the body of a GWL holder. The felon can't visit a home were any firearm, even an antique gun, even a blackpowder gun, is hung above the fireplace mantel. (I guess no eating at Cracker Barrel !) The felon can't meet an armed friend or relative at any store, any restaurant, anywhere, when the gun in question is privately owned.
(Government employees are special-- the rules don't apply to them. As the evil pig in Animal Farm said, "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.)

 

[gunsmoker]

... a parole officer was trying to make a point to a person on probation about how she (I think it was a she) was the one in control of his life. The officer drew her firearm, placed it on the table between her and the person and said "You know I could violate you right now and send you back to jail right?" Basically, she's claiming that once she took her hands off the weapon, they both legally had constructive possession of the firearm...

According to the parolee I spoke to the other day, his P/O took the position that any gun in the room, at least any gun not carried by a cop or other state officer, was a gun the felon would "possess." Even if the gun were holstered and securely attached to the body of a private citizen GWL holder.