Felony Conviction Ends 2A Rights?

Discussion in 'Firearm Related' started by Nemo, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,808
    817
    113
    More cases in litigation.

    What appears to me to be the key argument--


    Nemo


    https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-third-circuit-briefings


     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  2. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,535
    680
    113
    I support this. In the old days, a "felony" was always a serious crime-- at least as judged by the moral standards of that society, in that age. Now, plenty of stupid little penny-ante offenses are classified as "felonies" because the hysterical women and silly men in the legislature who passed these laws wanted to "show the world we're serious" about it. When really, they're just showing how pathetic they are, and how bad at governing.

    I'd be happy with a court ruling that says a blanket "no guns for felons, ever, lifetime ban" is unconstitutional. In fact, I think that the Second Amendment would demand that nobody who is a free citizen, and not on parole or probation anymore, can be denied the RIGHT to own a gun, possess a gun, and obtain a permit to carry one in public.

    (That's assuming the 2A were strictly followed, with no infringements. But if I could get away with infringing on it, I would, and SOME former felons would be banned from gun possession for life, or at least a long time, which may be even longer than the experation of their sentence. And some other people who aren't even convicted felons should also lose their gun rights through red flag laws. But hey, that's just my opinion. The Founding Fathers may disagree with me.)
     

  3. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,808
    817
    113
    The general felony conviction ban came about with the Gun Control Act of 1968. The Violent Felony requirement came into effect with the gun laws in 1934.

    With the completion of all the sentence and probation I would agree with all rights restored. But there would need to be some watchful eyes on the idea of conviction for distribution of 2 grams of coke gets 5 years, 2 active, 3 suspended on 5 years supervised probation and an additional 10 of general unsupervised probation. That sentence causing no rights restoration for 15 years post release.

    That seems an awful long probation time with no restoration and something a fair number of judges might impose. Just on the 2A aspect.

    Nemo


    https://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-can-a-convicted-felon-receive-firearm-rights/
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  4. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

    12,603
    1,702
    113
    The government like to go fishing with a tightly woven sieve net to increase its catch. Adds more people to the "controlled" pile.

    I'd like to see the FPC win these cases also.
     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    67,050
    1,428
    113
    Can you provide some more information about this?
     
  6. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,808
    817
    113
    From link cited above. Bold added.

    Nemo

     
  7. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,535
    680
    113
    Actually, it looks like the "prohibited persons" list was first created in 1938 with the FFA-- Federal Firearms Act.

    And it didn't include all felonies, just certain felony crimes.

    https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2114&context=facpubs

    Quote, from top of page 140.

    "Licensees [FFL dealers] were prohibited from knowingly shipping a fire- arm in interstate commerce to some felons, a fugitive from justice, a person under indictment, or anyone required to have a license under the law of the [state].
    All these prohibited owner classes were also forbidden to receive guns which were or had been in interstate commerce."
     
  8. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

    12,603
    1,702
    113
    "Some" is so constraining. Just ignore it. Makes their life so much easier and simple. :righton:
     
  9. Fallschirmjäger

    Fallschirmjäger I watch the watchers

    12,835
    63
    48
    Considering that the prohibition now includes people convicted of some misdemeanors (domestic violence), and those with no convictions at all, (involuntary commitment to mental hospital), we should hardly be surprised at that camel's nose poking into the tent.
     
  10. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,808
    817
    113
    Hail, its his whole head and half his neck already.

    Nemo
     
  11. diamondback

    diamondback Well-Known Member

    1,224
    39
    48
    I often mention this issue with the liberals trying to get felons ( democrat voters who cant vote by about 80-90%) to vote like what occurred in FLorida. Now most of those same people will not even hear of those same people they just gave voting rights to having guns again. Hence its all about votes. I too though agree that only numerous or violent felonies should have an effect on 2a rights.
     
  12. diamondback

    diamondback Well-Known Member

    1,224
    39
    48
    I often mention this issue with the liberals trying to get felons ( democrat voters who cant vote by about 80-90%) to vote like what occurred in FLorida. Now most of those same people will not even hear of those same people they just gave voting rights to having guns again. Hence its all about votes. I too though agree that only numerous or violent felonies should have an effect on 2a rights.
     
  13. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

    12,603
    1,702
    113
    That presumed flood of felon democrat voters in Florida didn't happen like I think you believe it did. Ballot amendment 4 passed with nearly 65% of the vote in Nov 2018. Luckily for the remaining sane people in FL, Gov DeSantis signed Sen Bill 7066 into law in June 2019. Felons wishing to have their voting rights restored must apply for them and must complete their entire sentence including any probation time and pay any restitution and court ordered fines and fees. Certain felons like murderers are not eligible to have their voting rights restored. The complete process could take years, maybe decades, to get their voting rights back. A couple million ex-felon democrat leaning voters will not be going to the polls in 2020 as was feared.

    https://apnews.com/3c391ba2d242467da19973d468fd66f2

    DeSantis and the legislature also passed HB5 which pretty much destroys the absolutely ridiculous voter initiated ballot amendment process. Which is pretty much legislation by mob rule instead of the legislative process. This will greatly affect the mob's assault weapon ban being proposed for the 2020 ballot.

    HB5
    https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs...viscerating-the-democratic-process-in-florida
     
  14. diamondback

    diamondback Well-Known Member

    1,224
    39
    48
    Ok so the voters are pretty stupid, but the governor might save them from themselves. with 65% i have no doubt in my mind they did not realize that organized this will turn florida deep blue as close as elections have been. Does anyone honestly think the naacp, aclu and splc were registering voters and getting signatures for republicans to win? ALso the new law is being challenged. I thought the new law only applied to paying their fines. I thought they did not have to actually apply to get the votes back. I thought they were automatically restored.

    If democrats got a petition and voted for it that would require people to have paid taxes of worked in the last one year are is the same equivilent of what conservatives did. They basically helping the other side win..

    Conservatives helped democrats get votes in FL with that felon voting amendment. Do you really think democrats would be taht stupid? Trump is 100% right that when he said how they stick together and that is how republicans lose. Hell democrats fight like hell against an id to vote? Why it means less losers to vote and fraud protection.

    Kind of like a conservative supporting amnesty. You just give more votes to democrats, thus more presidents like obama and more justices like kagan. which eventually means no guns and probably a second civil war. They happen in many nations
     
  15. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

    12,603
    1,702
    113
    More Obamas; probably. More Kagans; probably. No guns; never going to happen in this country.

    First civil war. An act of secession technically isn't an attempt to take over the existing government.

    The US isn't exempt.
     
  16. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

    12,808
    817
    113
    FTFY but had to edit myself to get it proper

    Nemo
     
  17. diamondback

    diamondback Well-Known Member

    1,224
    39
    48
    Moe

    God I hope you are right, but there are many things people thought would never happen in this country that have and will because people are money and power hungry.
     
  18. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

    12,603
    1,702
    113
    The money and the power are reserved for a very small percentage of the commie progressive elite; those in charge. The vast majority are just lemmings who will go along because they'll get all the free sh*t promised by their betters. Until they're no longer needed.
     
  19. diamondback

    diamondback Well-Known Member

    1,224
    39
    48
    If you notice the left finds some way of taking every group our founders would call undesirealbes or rather downtrodden group and hold them together, but hard balancing act. Great example are blacks and gays. Blacks are the least ( or at least before king hussein supported it) least supporting of gay marriage and other lgbt issues yet gays and balcks both line up under that "big tent"