[Mrs_Esterhouse]

Apparently the FBI is putting out this robbery advice to potential victims. People are posting it on community message boards throughout Atlanta, I guess in an effort to help out the robbers. :wink:

Does anyone have any credible statistical data to refute the FBI's data so I can post a counter point on some of these boards?

From FBI, based on analysis of armed robberies:

IF YOU ARE BEING ROBBED . . . . .
1. DO NOT RESIST! COOPERATE! Give the criminal whatever he asks for: wallet, keys, jewelry, credit cards or whatever. Your life is more valuable than replaceable possessions.

2. Don't make any sudden, unexpected moves. A nervous criminal may think you are reaching for a concealed weapon.

3. If the suspect claims he has a gun, knife, razor or whatever in his pocket, never try to force his bluff.

4. Never try to be a hero and apprehend the criminal yourself.

5. Notify police as soon as possible.

6. Just hand it over. Statistically, robbers who are given what they want right away will generally not injure anyone.

7. Keep your hands where the robber can see them at all times. The robber is already nervous and worried about how you are going to react. Don't make him any jumpier by creating questions about what you are doing with your hands. You don't have to hold them straight up in the air but keep them at least chest high, palms open, and out in front of you so that the robber has an opportunity to see that you are not doing anything or holding anything that can harm him.

8. Talk and move slowly. Your robber is nervous. Don't make sudden movements that he would have to react to. If he asks you a question, answer it as simply and as plainly as possible. Don't get into an argument. Don't make suggestions or try to bargain. Just answer questions, move slowly in any direction that you're ordered to, and try to get through it without any additional conflict.

9. Direct eye contact can be taken as a challenge. There is a good chance that your robber is trying very hard to feel like he's in control of the situation. Making eye contact with him can unconsciously give a signal that you're trying to challenge his control. Focus your eyes at about your robber's chest level so that you're facing him while you talk but don't look him directly in the eye or do anything else that might be considered challenging behavior.

10. Follow Orders. Your robber has already gone through what he expects to happen during the robbery in his mind. He's got a script, don't try to change it. Don't interrupt his plan or throw him off his stride by trying to alter his plan. Remember that his plan includes him leaving safely at the end. If you let him get through all the other steps of his plan, he'll eventually reach that last step and simply leave.

GIVE THE ROBBER WHAT THEY WANT AND FOCUS ON AN ACCURATE DESCRIPTION THAT INCLUDES HEIGHT, WEIGHT, AGE, HAIRSTYLE, AND CLOTHING. NOTE THE DIRECTION THEY GO, ANY ACCOMPLICES, AND IF A VEHICLE DETAILS ABOUT IT AS WELL.

 

[68908]

Creating more and more sheep everyday! uke:

 

[Puffyfish]

How I read it...

8. Talk and move slowly. Your robber is nervous. Don't make sudden movements that he would have to react to. If he asks you a question, answer it as simply and as plainly as possible. Don't get into an argument. Don't make suggestions or try to bargain. Just answer questions, move slowly in any direction that you're ordered to, and try to get through it without any additional conflict or at least let him think so till you empty your 1911 into them and the popo find them dead.

 

[Mrs_Esterhouse]

Thanks - still looking for credible counter data though. :wink:

 

[suttree]

My first thought was these directions would also be what some LEO's would like from an encounter with a legally armed citizen. Not all, but some.

 

[CoffeeMate]

What did they do, just change "agent" to "robber" or something? :screwy:

 

[GFLinTX]

10. Follow Orders. Your robber has already gone through what he expects to happen during the robbery in his mind. He's got a script, don't try to change it. Don't interrupt his plan or throw him off his stride by trying to alter his plan. Remember that his plan includes him leaving safely at the end. If you let him get through all the other steps of his plan, he'll eventually reach that last step and simply leave.

Really? I'm calling BS on this one.

This might be a big assumption for me to make, but I'm thinking about 80% of the people who try to rob me are going to be doing it for drug money because they are drug users. I'm guessing some of them will be on drugs while they attempt to rob me so they can get more drugs.

I'm not envisioning my back alley mugger being some kind of highly organized professional. If he was either of those things, I don't think he'd be mugging me. He might actually have a job, you know, one of those things decent people have. Is he dangerous? Certainly, right up to the moment that I blow his brain matter halfway down the block. But I just don't think of him as a guy with a plan or a "script". Not a very good one, at least.

 

[JMan]

Encounter How I would react

Robber - Give your wallet up NOW Or I will shoot
Me- Why yes Mr/Mrs Robber Here you go
Me- :shoot:
Robber- ALL I wanted was your wallet
Me- And you just got expensive ammo free of charge

Me - You better be lucky I didn't double tap :lol: :lol:

Then the cops show up and

:dtmb: :dtmb: HIM (Robber)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Mrs_Esterhouse]

So far it looks like the FBI data is irrefutable. Statistically, we are better off complying...

 

[CoffeeMate]

So far it looks like the FBI data is irrefutable. Statistically, we are better off complying...

Depends on how you define "better off".

 

[Mrs_Esterhouse]

So far it looks like the FBI data is irrefutable. Statistically, we are better off complying...

Depends on how you define "better off".

Better off as in:

6. Statistically, robbers who are given what they want right away will generally not injure anyone.

 

[CoffeeMate]

[quote="Mrs_Esterhouse":8e6qvy7x]So far it looks like the FBI data is irrefutable. Statistically, we are better off complying...

Depends on how you define "better off".

Better off as in:

6. Statistically, robbers who are given what they want right away will generally not injure anyone.

[/quote:8e6qvy7x]
:lol: Yeah, that's a good one... We've seen plenty of examples to the contrary just this past year alone.

Personally, I do not define "better off" as actions which encourage and foster robbery as a low-risk, high-profit activity.

 

[Mrs_Esterhouse]

[quote="Mrs_Esterhouse":38jw3jv9]So far it looks like the FBI data is irrefutable. Statistically, we are better off complying...

Depends on how you define "better off".

Better off as in:

6. Statistically, robbers who are given what they want right away will generally not injure anyone.

:lol: Yeah, that's a good one... We've seen plenty of examples to the contrary just this past year alone.
[/quote:38jw3jv9]
Any compiled statistics by reputable sources?

 

[Phil1979]

Statistics will always show a greater number of cases where a robber robs a victim, does not cause further harm. Most just want the money, and once they get it, they're out of there.

The fallacy lies in using this statistic to help make a life/death decision in any one particular case.

The robber who robs me just might kill me to get rid of the witness. I have no way of knowing that, as criminals are unpredictable, and are often under the influence of some mind altering substance.

When it's my life on the line, do I want the criminal to have the power of life or death over me? Or would I rather reserve that power for myself? For me, the latter if it's at all possible. Not a lot you can do if the bad guy gets the drop on you.

Bottom line is, you either follow the FBI's advice to not resist, or you don't. It's your right to choose the option you feel is best for you. The answer you seek does not lie in statistics.

 

[JMan]

Statistics will always show a greater number of cases where a robber robs a victim, does not cause further harm. Most just want the money, and once they get it, they're out of there.

The fallacy lies in using this statistic to help make a life/death decision in any one particular case.

The robber who robs me just might kill me to get rid of the witness. I have no way of knowing that, as criminals are unpredictable, and are often under the influence of some mind altering substance.

When it's my life on the line, do I want the criminal to have the power of life or death over me? Or would I rather reserve that power for myself? For me, the latter if it's at all possible. Not a lot you can do if the bad guy gets the drop on you.

Bottom line is, you either follow the FBI's advice to not resist, or you don't. It's your right to choose the option you feel is best for you. The answer you seek does not lie in statistics.

:righton: :righton: :righton: :righton: :righton:

 

[atlsrt44]

"8. Talk and move slowly. Your robber is nervous. Don't make sudden movements that he would have to react to. If he asks you a question, answer it as simply and as plainly as possible. Don't get into an argument. Don't make suggestions or try to bargain. Just answer questions, move slowly in any direction that you're ordered to, and try to get through it without any additional conflict."

Wow I always wanted my very own robber. They tell me how not to make him nervous but nothing on what to feed him and how often to let him out.

 

[samman23]

where is this report published?

 

[guitarded_1]

I think it's not entirely reasonable for anyone to armchair quarterback such a scenario. It really just boils down to personal choice as to whether you resist or comply - neither is necessarily right or wrong. Furthermore, a huge adrenaline dump has a way of really complicating whatever master plan that you think you may have ahead of time. I do hear/see a lot of guys talking with great confidence about drawing their weapon and killing the BG - but when a gun is leveled at your head or body with an itchy trigger finger on it - it ain't that easy. All I really know is that I hope I never find myself in that situation, but I do at least try to be as prepared as possible.

 

[gunsmoker]

I don't have any statistics, but I've been reading newspapers for 30+ years.
I get the impression that the number of "armed robberies where nobody gets hurt" is huge, and the number of "armed robberies that turn into murders even though the victim didn't give the robber any trouble" is rather small.
Not unheard of, of course. There are some totally unprovoked killings, such as just to eliminate witnesses.
But they are far less common than the "bad guys just want the money (car, jewerly, whatever) and will leave as soon as they get it" scenario.

The only kind of statistics that would be meaningful to ME would be to ONLY study those situations where somebody intimately familiar with firearms (not just any gun owner) is confronted by a robber, and where some of the victims choose to comply while others choose to resist with deadly force. THEN I would be highly interested in seeing the outcome. But I would not be surprised to see that even then, most of the time it's safer not to engage (safer for YOU the individual-- not safer for the rest of the community though!)

 

[CoffeeMate]

But they are far less common than the "bad guys just want the money (car, jewerly, whatever) and will leave as soon as they get it" scenario.

Is that because deep down they're really just troubled unicorns with abused rainbows and are trying to turn their lives around?