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Discussion in 'In the News' started by Malum Prohibitum, Sep 29, 2007.
Driven away by father with gun
So, sometimes when identified as officers they really aren't. And sometimes it really is the SWAT, but they don't tell you. And sometimes they're in the wrong house. So confusing!
I don't have a lot of personal experience as far as "Dynamic Entrys" into a home is concerned. However, I do know that a Police officer could use a Crowbar (however unlikely) to get into the home. (More likely a "battering ram" type device) But either way the "Breacher" doesn't go into the house first, he gets the door out of the way, and the team goes in. (AKA "Entry Team" not "Breacher") So, that being said, if a person is gonna hit me with a crowbar.. My guess is he isn't a policeman.
But I wasn't there in the house so hard to tell the entire situation.
It's too bad he didn't hit any of them.
OK, this brings up a question.
Actually, several questions...
Someone is beating on your front door in the middle of the night and yelling, "POLICE". What do you do?
Do you open the door and, if they're real cops and ask you to step outside, do you step outside? What if they're not real cops?
Do you open the door with gun in hand, and if they're real cops asking you to step outside, refuse to do so unless they show you a warrant?
Do you not open the door with gun in hand, and if they're real cops asking you to step outside, refuse to do so? Tell them to show you a warrant or, if they can't do that, to off!!! ?
You don't open the door, and ask to see their warrant. They don't have one and, following your polite request to go away, they don't! They're real cops without a warrant, you don't open the door, they don't leave as requested but instead, they kick open open your door and come inside with guns drawn.
In that case, you're unsure if they're real cops or not, so you start shooting and end up like the old lady in Atlanta?
The question is, what should you do?
Open the door, step outside and be handcuffed (like the guy in the "road rage" post who's kid had a toy gun in the car)? Refuse to open the door and step outside? Ask to see a warrant? Call 911? Start shooting? What???
How does anyone know if they're real cops or home invader types unless they stop yelling at you to open the door and show some id?
What's the best response? Cooperate? Shoot? Call 911 and report a home invasion in progress? What?
If they're actual cops and you start shooting when they bust down your door, you'll probably end up dead. If they're not and you don't start shooting, you may end up dead or at least in serious trouble, no matter what you do at this point...
So, what should a person in this situation do? Cooperate or shoot?
How do we know if the guys on the front porch are real cops if they don't show id?
How many "wittinesses" will you need to win this in court?
I wonder if you could tell them that you are calling the police to varify whether or not they are supposed to be there?
Yup. I'll also call 911 and tell them people claiming to be cops are on my porch. If they aren't, I'll detonate the charges that drop the porch 15' into the punji stick pit.
Another example of why no-knock warrants are bad.
Swat makes a mistake and no-knocks my house at 0300 instead of the BGs house. Ten seconds later I am blasting away with my shotgun at what I assume is a home invasion.
LEOs die, I die and nobody is happy. All because someone didn't want a BG to flush a little dope.
At least with a knock, I can call 911 and verify.
How do you game plan for that?
Build a panic room.
Well, in my house I go out into the balcony up front and talk down (literally) to the person at the door. I may be armed at this point but likely they wouldn't have a clue. If they wanna break in the front or the back door and rush up the stairs in either side, they are coming in a "death funnel" and even if they are wearing ballistic vests, they will likely be dead before they get to the main floor. Living in a townhouse means that the resident has the tactical advantage, especially if the bedroom is on 2nd or 3rd floor. This also means that police who would want to execute a no-knock warrant is at a very high risk. This is especially true for my neighborhood where most houses are armed.
I have neighbors who have installed video cameras to front door which they can access over any monitor in the house. That's also a good option. I have seen LEOs be very aware of those things.
So what are the odds that you will ever have SWAT break down your front door for anythiing even if wrong door? I would be more worried about the BG trying to come thru a window to steal my PS3 for crack. On an off note I know someone who has a California bar on his front door I think regardless of who was coming in they would have time to call 911 or get to safety, like a safe room.
I've been looking at townhouses recently and have always loved this about them. If someone comes in that shouldn't be coming in, they have to make their way up a narrow stairwell while taking fire from above. A small, wheeled cart with concrete blocks or thick steel plate would provide great cover and work well as a leg breaker if I had to push it down the stairs.
There are negatives too, if any are like the one I used to live in. The walls are paper thin, and don't exactly even slow down any projectiles flying into unintended areas, ie. joined (shared walls) neighbors.
Mine was so bad that it reminds me of the movie office space where the main guy and his neighbor would talk to each other through the wall.
In fact when I would flush my toilet the dog that lived on the otherside would start barking for about 30 minutes, I hated that mutt.
Interesting and informative, but............
No one really answered my question.
If that should happen, unlikely as it may be,
what should one do?
Run out the back door?
Say a quick prayer?
My first thought is to start shooting.
If they really are cops, that means I'll end up dead with 40 or 50 bullet holes in my wrinkled old hide.
If they're not cops and I don't shoot, I may still end up dead! Or, at the very least, watch some of my possessions go out the door...
I appreciate the answers so far. Maybe I'm asking a question for which there is no answer, but I still don't know what's the best response in such a situation.
Maybe, there is no answer.
You couldn't figure out his position? Those 5.7 bullets don't leave big holes...
I'm in a townhouse. I knew something was missing from the top of my stairs.
Go with 1" steel plate, then you can disguise the cart as as a bar station. Angled wine racks can be bent to the angle of your stairs, so you don't have to look over your cover to have well-aimed shots. If you want to go all out, you could rig up a couple of CS cannisters and set them off before pushing said fort down the stairs. After you've prepared all that, they'll come through your windows and shoot you in the back while you watch the front door. But you'll make the news!
Well I have seen on "future Weapons" were the will just put a shape charge on a wall and make a door. In the end youre pretty much screwed.
Do SWAT teams normally blow stuff up to make entrances? I thought the worst was the car-mounted battering ram.
or how about truck with grappling hooks to tear out gated windows. I seen a episode of Dallas SWAT where they about tore down a corner of a house using one of those.