Eye protection from lasers

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by AzB, Jul 26, 2020.

  1. AzB

    AzB Well-Known Member

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    After seeing the story about Federal officers permanently blinded by rioters using green lasers, I started thinking it might not be a bad idea to get some eyepro for lasers. Just in case this becomes a "thing". And we all know what happens if you wait to take action... you end up missing out or paying a premium.

    So looking at what's available, I see lots of different variables for wavelength. Not knowing anything about lasers, does anyone here have any knowledge? Are there eyepro that offer universal protection? What sort of wavelengths are these rioters most likely using?

    Any info would help. I'm not a scientist and perusing the available online info is mostly just confusing.
     
  2. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    You would have to have too many different eye pros to insure you have the right one at any given moment. Each laser emits at a different wave length and the eye pro must protect against that specific wave length. This makes it impossible to predict which glasses you would need when the laser is aimed at your eyes. So if someone is aiming a red laser at your eyes and someone else aims a white laser at your eyes at the same time you're done. Also which wave length of red laser are they using?
     

  3. dhaller

    dhaller Active Member

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    If you want to flash-blind someone with a laser (which must require some good aim in action!), you'd be using green lasers (532nm) because that's the "sweet spot" for retinal absorption in a dark-adapted eye... the idea is the bleach the retina, so "painting" the retina in green light is the quickest way to do it.

    If you want to protect yourself against it, you need eye protection which absorbs green light. Pretty simple.

    Basically the only other kind of laser you'd encounter is a red laser (actually several frequencies are available, all in the 600-700nm range), but that's never going to be the "weapon of choice", as green is MUCH more hazardous to vision.

    There are more dangerous lasers out there, but those aren't generally hand-held and battery powered.

    The high-wattage laser pointers also don't have the tightest beams, so maintaining distance would be wise, as well (compounded by the fact that it's harder for the laser to find an eye at distance). You could also make sure you're brightly illuminated (every notice how you can't see a laser dot well in the daytime?... that makes it harder to aim.)

    If you were ambushed, even thin cloth over the eyes (think old-school bank robbers with pantyhose masks) would probably mitigate the laser to the point of less harm.

    DH
     
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  4. AzB

    AzB Well-Known Member

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    Thanks DH for that info. That was very helpful!
     
  5. GM404

    GM404 Well-Known Member

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    I need to dig through my old flight bag...got some laser glasses in there somewhere. They were supposed to be used when flying around the middle east but oddly enough, they were most needed flying around San Antonio, TX as we were lased almost on a nightly basis. We did have one pilot that was grounded for a bit, but if I recall...eye damage was minimal.
     
  6. mrhutch

    mrhutch Well-Known Member

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    My friends and I were talking about this before it happened. A laser attack is scarier than the concept of a bomb. It would be VERY easy to shine a laser at cars in traffic from an overpass and blind hundreds. And even to utilize mirrors to blind crowds of people pretty much anywhere at any time. I'd rather lose a limb to a bomb than go blind in an instant completely unexpectedly.
     
  7. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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  8. Craftsman

    Craftsman Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is a .308 Win or a 6.5 Creedmore round through the laser holder's left eye is an effective defense against being blinded by an industrial laser. That should be the ROE. Wouldn't take more than one or two to get the message across.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  9. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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    Yep, having an eye blinded is maiming, akin to having any other body part permanently ruined. I'm sending my remote defenders made of lead and copper toward anyone sending a remote laser attack against me. I'll shoot to also protect others.
     
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  10. dhaller

    dhaller Active Member

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    Unfortunately - unlike their depiction in movies - laser beams are pretty much invisible except at the source point and at the target. So actually spotting the attacker in anything less than rural darkness (where you might see a little green or red pinpoint over in the treelike or wherever) is going to be tough.

    In a dust-or-vapor-heavy situation (like, say, the air is full of smoke or tear gas), THEN you might talk realistically about actually tracing a beam to its source.

    More dangerous than a human-operated laser would be a drone-mounted one, because the drone can get a bead on a target (like a human eye) and hit it pretty precisely (unlike a mounted firearm, a laser has no recoil effects which the drone needs to recover from). That's a pretty easy programming job.

    I'm convinced! Adding a laser shield to my kit! I wonder if there's a laminate which can add a shielding property to a windshield...

    DH
     
  11. CoolHand

    CoolHand Active Member

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    Bad news for y’all that think green wavelength blocking lenses will save your eyesight. They won’t. Green lasers use an infrared laser diode. The infrared light is sent through a frequency doubling crystal that converts a percentage of the infrared light to green light. The rest of the infrared light gets emitted along with the green. In a high quality pointer there is an infrared “cut filter” that blocks the infrared light from exiting the laser pointer. That costs money and makes for a more complicated, less reliable laser. The illegal high output Chinesium lasers don’t even bother with them.

    If your eye pro doesn’t block IR and green wavelengths you are hosed. As things progress downhill expect more people to be blinded and never recall seeing a laser. IR lasers are undetectable to the naked eye and you don’t have a blink reflex to IR. It literally takes about a tenth of a second to blind someone permanently with a military spec laser designator like a AN/PEQ-2 or -15, -15A, etc... That’s why they are restricted sales items by the FDA to military and LE only. Civilians can and do buy them on the used market and from overseas (see Russian PERST type) and buy/build handheld pointers. This is not secret knowledge. I fully expect the Antifa and other communist terrorist front groups to use these in operations in the US if they haven’t already. Don’t expect a lot of news or warning from the Feds or the MSM. They willfully cover and enable those groups existence and operations.

    There are several companies that make multi wavelength laser blocking ballistic glasses and goggles. Goggles are better than glasses because they block glancing and off axis reflected beams that can slip by the edges of glasses and blind you. Oakley is one. There’s another company who makes a mo betta lense that blocks more wavelengths though. The name escapes me at the moment but I’ll try to look it up later and post it. Good luck finding any in stock though. Errrrbody is scrambling for them and .mil/Leo gets first dibs.
     
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  12. CoolHand

    CoolHand Active Member

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    Angel 7 eye wear. L.E.P. Lens line
     
  13. Smilodon

    Smilodon Active Member

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    I wonder what kind of protection a pair of shade 3,5 or 7 safety glasses from a welding supply would offer.
     
  14. Phil1979

    Phil1979 Member Georgia Carry

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  15. dhaller

    dhaller Active Member

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    Some? Welding glasses protect against UV (cornea damage) and IR/NIR (retinal burns) preferentially, though they tend to have higher transmittance in the green/yellow part of the spectrum (which is okay for a weld arc, which is a non-coherent blackbody radiator, but less okay when you're talking green lasers.) They also aren't designed to block coherent light.

    Ironically, much of this is the same reason it's hard to send people to Mars: it's difficult to plan ahead for every electromagnetic spectral profile one might encounter over time!

    If you really want to protect yourself against all comers laser-wise, that takes some doing. Here's an example, but note that it cuts 68% of visible light, as well, so nighttime use is only feasible if you can but heavy light on a scene (like you have truck or facility-mounted spotlights). After this, you need to just start looking at the world through cameras.

    https://www.newport.com/p/LV-R14.T1...b6r0IIx35o4Q7CGZWqGbkAnX1LQ3hw7QaAlSiEALw_wcB

    DH
     
  16. Smilodon

    Smilodon Active Member

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    I looked up the specs on the pair I have. They are starlite GS glasses w5 for welding shade 5, u6 for uv, and r5 for ir. I am pretty sure they are only rated for indirect ir exposure for working near someone welding. They are also pretty dark for night time use.

    I also noticed that they make auto darkening goggles now. That might offer more protection, if they are fast enough.
     
  17. Smilodon

    Smilodon Active Member

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    What I have found so far is that the r5 rating applies to en208 which only covers <400nm to <700nm.

    I found a little more detail on 5.0 ir filter lenses the visible light transmitted is 2% 380-780nm, UVA,uvb blocked is 99% 200-380nm, blue light blocked is 99% 400-700nm, ir blocked is 99% 780-2000nm. This is for pyramex brand safety glasses which are about $6. The 3.0 ir filter lenses are 12%, 99%, 97%, 95%. 1.5 ir filter lenses are 58%, 100%, 85%, 83%. Those are the specs but I'm not sure how they translate to protection from green and ir lasers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  18. dhaller

    dhaller Active Member

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    The problem is "lasers" - lasers are *coherent* light, meaning they are many orders of magnitude brighter than "regular" light (like that given off a weld arc).

    So, let's say we can block 99% of "regular light" - if our laser is 1000x brighter per unit subtended area, we still have 10x penetrating through to the eye.

    Light intensity is a power law (and an inverse function of the subtended solid angle of the beam, which approaches zero for coherent light, meaning the intensity blows up fast), so laser intensity can be many thousands of times brighter than even crazy-bright lights like arcs or magnesium fires. Fortunately, they have very tight wavelengths, so you can block *that* while letting other light pass through... again, if you know the wavelengths!

    DH
     
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  19. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    99.99% of lasers sold in America are of the class that is too weak to actually cause eye damage, even though they warn you against that possibility, and the lasers themselves have a little sticker telling you not to point it at people.

    Based on the very UNLIKELY scenario that you would know the laser being pointed at you is of the seriously EYE damaging class, you would not be authorized to use deadly force against the "protester" wielding a laser in your direction.

    You would certainly be prosecuted for murder and I'll bet that a jury would convict you. And if not, if they hung, the prosecutor would retry the case.

    Your perception of the threat you face must be both objectively and subjectively reasonable. Your own irrational fears and exaggerated sense of danger will not justify you using deadly force.