Excellent Article - "The Right to Resist and the Vindication of Julius Holmes"

Discussion in 'GA Laws and Politics' started by jgullock, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. jgullock

    jgullock Active Member

    1,700
    11
    38
    http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2016/07/the-right-to-resist-and-vindication-of.html

     
  2. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

    3,173
    244
    63
    Wow. The ruling goes on to state:
    "[FONT=&quot]“Every person has the right to resist an illegal arrest, whether attempted by an officer, or by a private individual, and, in resistance, may use as much force as necessary for the purpose,” Hill emphasized. This right inheres in every individual, “whatever his color or condition.”"

    [FONT=&quot]It goes even f[FONT=&quot]urther and says:
    [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Had Holmes killed one of the officers, the court observed, that would have been an act of justifiable homicide. If Jobson or Rogers had succeeded in fatally shooting Holmes, “such killing would be felonious. Even with a warrant an officer cannot legally kill one who flees from him to avoid arrest for a misdemeanor.”

    [FONT=&quot]Of course this all happened in 1908......[/FONT]
    [/FONT]
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016

  3. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

    44,830
    186
    63
    Judges today do not believe this, all judges agree with today is goverment force and immunity if an officer does something wrong, that is how statist we've become as a country, you can thank your local public school for that.

    How far we've fallen in just 100 years.
     
  4. CoffeeMate

    CoffeeMate Junior Butt Warmer

    46,427
    9
    0
    That was back before we became a 'Mockracy. Now we just nuke the house from orbit, just in case.

    Kidnapping too, I'd say.

     
  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    67,050
    1,428
    113
  6. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    67,050
    1,428
    113
    Julius Holmes was black. The crowd and officers were white. I have posited before on this forum that Judges in Georgia often used the right to resist an unlawful arrest to protect the rights of black Georgians in the time of Jim Crow.

    While the basic premise is still sound in Georgia law, you should be aware that Georgia is in the minority of states on this issue. The federal courts here do not recognize it except as a matter of state law, and even then the federal courts refer to it with derision.

    While I think the law should recognize the right to resist an unlawful arrest, I do not expect the courts in Georgia to continue to do so.

    Also, Legacy38 has posted cases showing that so long as probable cause exists, the technical details of Georgia statutory law, e.g., whether there was a warrant or whether the offense was committed in the officer's presence, do not apply to the analysis of whether the arrest is unlawful. I have not devoted any time to studying his assertion, but Legacy is generally correct on such matters, so you should carefully consider what he has written.

    There has been a lot of case law development in this area since 1908.
     
  7. UtiPossidetis

    UtiPossidetis American

    3,173
    244
    63
    Sad, because the reasoning in the 1908 decision appears sound IMHO.
     
  8. jgullock

    jgullock Active Member

    1,700
    11
    38
    And?

    12345
     
  9. CoffeeMate

    CoffeeMate Junior Butt Warmer

    46,427
    9
    0
    I speculate he is attempting to caution anyone who might otherwise attempt to rely on it as current case law.
     
  10. legacy38

    legacy38 Well-Known Member

    9,075
    89
    48
    Ever read Plessy v. Ferguson, 163 U.S. 537, or Dredd Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
  11. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,537
    681
    113
    100 years ago, the Supreme Court of Ga said that a ranch hand or farm worker can carry on the rural land they work as their "place of business." WITHOUT ANY CARRY PERMIT.

    I am not confident that a court would follow that reasoning to rule that a pimply-faced 18 year old burger flipper can pack a loaded concealed pistol in his polyester uniform at McDorkle's in the City of Atlanta, without his employer's knowledge or permission.

    Bob Dylan said "the times they are a-changin' " and they may have changed enough to erode the value of 100+ year old caselaw.
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    67,050
    1,428
    113
    Did you read post # 6 before you posted this question?
     
  13. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

    67,050
    1,428
    113
    Why not? The law still says "place of business," doesn't it?

    O.C.G.A. § 16-11-126

    "Any person [including pimply faced 18 year olds] who is not prohibited by law from possessing a handgun [which includes pimply faced 18 year olds] . . . may have or carry on his . . . person a weapon . . . inside his . . . place of business [which includes McDonalds] without a valid weapons carry license."
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  14. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

    44,830
    186
    63
    How do we return our country to a place that has judges that believe like this, instead of judges who support law enforcement no matter what the do?
     
  15. CoffeeMate

    CoffeeMate Junior Butt Warmer

    46,427
    9
    0
    We just had an election. How many judgeships go to people for no other reason than that they're willing to take the job?
     
  16. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

    44,830
    186
    63
    As far as I understand it, becoming a judge is all politics and having a lot of money.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  17. jgullock

    jgullock Active Member

    1,700
    11
    38
    I posted it because it was an interesting story, not to illicit some lawyer jibba jabba!
     
  18. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

    27,537
    681
    113
    I don't know how a modern court might distinguish a future case from those ranch hand carry cases, but I'm sure it could be done. We've all seen some really convoluted thinking and lack of logic from the appellate courts of Georgia, haven't we? Or the federal courts, too-- like how church carry would force churches to deal with armed unwelcome visitors in their churches, and giving them the choice to opt-in would leave them no control over their own church security.
     
  19. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

    44,830
    186
    63
    Very true GS, very convoluted logic indeed.