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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been taking in all the TSA stories and holding my comments. There is something wrong with the way the TSA situation is being presented. I figured it out after Clark Howard said it is the fault of Janet Napolitano and the administration, not the average TSA employee. This is BS! Every single member of the TSA made the decision to violate the constitutional rights of US citizens in exchange for pay and federal union benefits. This is the definition of selling your soul. The payoff must be good as the [s:fvy5hs00]employees[/s:fvy5hs00] hired goons are marching in lock step. How could a fellow American wake up and go to work groping children and women, making women cry, humiliating grown men under pressure of loss of liberty, terrorizing the population.

Many of us have ancestors who fought to prevent what we are willing to accept...

 

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I feel the TSA has a "guilty until proven innocent" approach to security which is completely orthogonal to search and seizure. Their policy making is quickly carving out exceptions and throwing equal protection out the window. I can't wait to see how the first few lawsuits are adjudicated to see what the next step is.
 

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AEKDB said:
Is this necessary?

The Gestapo/SS/Nazis murdered 20,000,000 people for no reason at all. The TSA conducts embarrassing searches at airports where people are trying to board voluntary commercial flights. Is the TSA's conduct overbearing, perverted, stupid and unconstitutional? Yes. Is it comparable to ethnic cleansing on the largest scale the world has ever known? Not a chance.

I hate comparisons to the Nazis. I hated it when liberals did it to Bush, and as much as I despise the current administration, I hate seeing it done to Obama, Holder and others. It's a bush league tactic.

The Nazis were evil on a level never witnessed by mankind, and on a level that will likely never be witnessed again. So until the TSA comes out and murders several million people, I'd prefer it if we attacked them for what they are: unconstitutional and sometimes outright criminal thugs. And that's still a far cry from murdering Gestapo agent.
 

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The intent of the original post is to underscore what people are willing to do to fellow citizens. The Nazi imagery is a reminder of how bad things can get. What is the next step for us? What if a federal agency decided that political discontent is destabilizing to the common good? What if dissenters were arrested and held for thought crimes? Can we say Joseph Stalin? Can we say Mao Tse Tung?

But that could never happen in the US. We don't have thought crimes... Well, wait, what about federal hate crime legislation? Sure, you have to commit a crime, but the precedent is there. If person A commits a crime for money, and person B commits the same due to prejudice against the victim, doesn't person B face additional federal charges? I.e. unapproved thoughts = more severe punishment.

I don't think this comment was intended to draw unfair comparisons to real cases of ethnic/political cleansing. It's meant to suggest that all those atrocities had a beginning rooted in average citizens trampling the rights of fellow citizens because the government authorized it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
GFLinTX said:
The Nazis were evil on a level never witnessed by mankind, and on a level that will likely never be witnessed again.
You do realize that your statement is factually incorrect?

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."


CoffeeMate said:
Thin end of the wedge or thick end of the wedge, it's still the same wedge.
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
Verbal101 said:
The intent of the original post is to underscore what people are willing to do to fellow citizens. The Nazi imagery is a reminder of how bad things can get.

I don't think this comment was intended to draw unfair comparisons to real cases of ethnic/political cleansing. It's meant to suggest that all those atrocities had a beginning rooted in average citizens trampling the rights of fellow citizens because the government authorized it.
And the people allowed it!

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
 

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AEKDB said:
GFLinTX said:
The Nazis were evil on a level never witnessed by mankind, and on a level that will likely never be witnessed again.
You do realize that your statement is factually incorrect?

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."
I honestly have no idea how that disproves the supreme evil of the Nazis...
 

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CoffeeMate said:
Thin end of the wedge or thick end of the wedge, it's still the same wedge.
Hear, hear!
 

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AEKDB said:
Every single member of the TSA made the decision to violate the constitutional rights of US citizens in exchange for pay and federal union benefits. This is the definition of selling your soul.
The TSA did not start out with the rules we have today, so I don't think they originally were out to "sell their souls." Nonetheless, I agree that the TSA is (now) out of control. I couldn't look myself in the mirror doing what they do.

smn said:
I feel the TSA has a "guilty until proven innocent" approach to security which is completely orthogonal to search and seizure.
Hmnn.. never heard "orthogonal" used in this context. Interesting.
 

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AEKDB said:
Every single member of the TSA made the decision to violate the constitutional rights of US citizens in exchange for pay and federal union benefits.
BTW, I don't think they're unionized yet. I'm sure it won't be long, though.
 

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oxfat said:
AEKDB said:
Every single member of the TSA made the decision to violate the constitutional rights of US citizens in exchange for pay and federal union benefits.
BTW, I don't think they're unionized yet. I'm sure it won't be long, though.
Once they unionize, will they offer happy endings for first class passengers?

[/bad_taste][/sarcasm]
 

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The Nazi's started by harrassing the Jews and embarrassing them in front of their friends, family, and neighbors. After society accepted that, then they started to destroy Jewish businesses. Then the violence.

The TSA is harassing Americans and embarrassing them in front of their friends, family and neighbors. Obama is destroying free enterprise and capitalism in the US.

The parrallels are quite similar, especially since the Nazi party full name was the National Socialist German Workers’ Party ... but they just called themselves National Socialists.
 

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I'm not afraid to say it, and I know everyone will say, "that can't happen here" or "we've all heard that slippery slope argument" but I really do think this is just another form of incrementalism. Get us used to this level of harassment at the airport, then when there is a terrorist attack at the next location, movie theater, shopping mall, sporting event, ect... then the same harassment/pat downs/scanners will go in there to "keep us safe."

Did ya'll hear about the thousands of dollars you will be fined, the arrest, if you do not agree to the scanner or the patdown? Don't believe the government is force?

Also, then once our children and even ourselves are used to this level of harassment, violation of rights, and embarrassment, they will move on to the next Constitutional infringement.

This is exactly the way other totalitarianism states began. Don't believe it can happen here? Wake up. America does not have some magic shield around it that limits our government from doing the exact same thing as others have done.

The fourth amendment is already almost dead in this country. Warrants are already pretty much not needed to confiscate or steal anything, or just monitor you. Your privacy is gone.

Maybe next it will be your speech, I predict that will be the next thing to go in this country right after the fourth amendment.
 

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If you can't ever talk about what the Nazis did, then how will you recognize it when it happens in color? We are not immune.

Godwin's Law had its place in early internet forums and still has a place in ignorant discussions, but not when the facts seem to mirror that dark history.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
GFLinTX said:
I honestly have no idea how that disproves the supreme evil of the Nazis...
I was addressing two parts of your argument.

1.
GFLinTX said:
The Nazis were evil on a level never witnessed by mankind, and on a level that will likely never be witnessed again.
Again, you do realize that your statement is factually incorrect? Mao and Stalin were far more "evil". I guess a picture of these regimes is less offensive? Why?

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GFLinTX said:
So until the TSA comes out and murders several million people, I'd prefer it if we attacked them for what they are: unconstitutional and sometimes outright criminal thugs. And that's still a far cry from murdering Gestapo agent.
You seem to set the bar at murder. The TSA gets a pass until they murder people? So I can't identify them for what they are until they murder people? Then is it just any people or do they have to murder Jews? When do we speak up? When they come for the Jews? When they come for me? When they come for you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
EJR914 said:
Maybe next it will be your speech, I predict that will be the next thing to go in this country right after the fourth amendment.
I am going to test the TSA's reaction to free speech. I tried to get in the "special line" this morning but they were funneling everyone into the metal detector instead.
 

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AEKDB said:
EJR914 said:
Maybe next it will be your speech, I predict that will be the next thing to go in this country right after the fourth amendment.
I am going to test the TSA's reaction to free speech. I tried to get in the "special line" this morning but they were funneling everyone into the metal detector instead.
I'm sure that if you say certain things to the TSA it will get you in trouble, but I was thinking more about the FCC.
 

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Probably blasting myself here.... I keep seeing the term "liberal" thrown around like it's a plague...

DEFINITION.....

lib·er·al [ líbb?r?l ]
broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others
progressive politically or socially: favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual
generous: freely giving money, time, or some other asset

Yeah.... I'll proudly call myself that as it sure beats the alternative.

Back on topic... I think the problem here is that the TSA has literally gotten too big for its britches. Ever since it was brought under the DHS, it's excercised more and more poor judgement. You have the higher-ups allowing their employees to act like police officers when they have no official powers to act in such a manner. Also, the training TSA agents recieve is piss-poor at best. Literally no communication training or focus on accountability and no supervision from their "superiors".

As to being arrested or fined for not agreeing to a patdown, that was what one TSA agent told a man that was leaving AFTER he was already searched. The police that responded to the incident even told the TSA agent he was an idiot in so many words. The damage had been done though as the man that was searched in that incident was embarrased because his urostomy bag broke during the search and you can guess what the results were. I give credit to the airline company he bought his ticket from though. They gave him a full refund and apologized for the actions of the idiot TSA agents that he had to deal with.

I personally can't wait to see all the lawsuits slapped against the TSA in the next few months if things keep going the way they are. Once they lose several million dollars, they might start to think twice about not changing their policies.
 

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Arkimedes, I prefer leftist for what many label liberal. Primarily because I prefer classical liberal for myself, and I am most definitely no leftist.
 
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