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Perhaps taking his entrance to Medical School ruined that unknown person's life? I've KNOWN someone that committed suicide when they did not get admitted to med school.
Maybe the med school saw some indication of extreme mental illness. There had to be some if the person killed him/herself just because he/she didn't get into med school/
 

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(It got 3rd place)

Seems like Carlos was groomed from a very young age to pretend you're something you're not. He learned its ok to take money forcefully taken from taxpayers while lying and disrespecting the laws of the US. He learned if you lie enough, take advantage of free handouts enough, disrespect the immigration laws and other laws of a Sovereign nation, then you have bleeding hearts that will say oh poor baby, you're such a great person!
 

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This entire discussion and the "moral" dilemma it represents was planned from the outset back when the leftists chose to not enforce immigration laws. The "dreamers" and their parents should have been sent home long ago, but the left intentionally chose to set this ticking bomb so they could claim moral superiority. This is the long game of Alinsky's Fourth rule: " Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." They have zero moral compunction about any topic except gaining power. They are perfectly fine leaving "dreamers" in limbo forever as political pawns. The only thing they won't trade is the ability to continue to create further versions of this same problem, hence their unwillingness to trade funding for illegal immigration prevention in the form of a physical border barrier AKA "The Wall" for a one time (anyone else remember the exact same "one time" deal Reagan cut with the left?") amnesty grant. Quit pretending this is anything but an intentional moral and legal failure on the part of the left and demand they fix it permanently with real immigration enforcement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Craftsman, but this is the moral dilemma in which we find ourselves today, regardless of whether it was planned or intentional. Because you believe the other side has zero moral compunction, do you toss your own morals aside, too?
 

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This entire discussion and the "moral" dilemma it represents was planned from the outset back when the leftists chose to not enforce immigration laws.
Choosing not to enforce our immigration laws only compounded the massive damage the commies did by changing them wholesale. The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.
 

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What makes it a moral dilemma if you are calling a criminal a criminal? Someone who breaks the laws every day their entire life and does nothing to change their ways has no morals. They have no respect for themselves or others. Their only pride in themselves is they got away with it and are being aided and abetting buy those who claim a higher morality.

Sorry but last time I heard aiding and abetting was also criminal behavior.
 

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If you were dragged here as a child illegally and then choose to pursue the many avenues to stay here legally once you're old enough to do so, and you speak english, then welcome. If you lived here your entire life knowing you're illegal and are now in your 20s and have still take no steps to rectify the situation, i have no sympathy for you at all if ICE comes knocking.

The fact that a boy from a poor immigrant family was raised in public school in poverty and was able to get the grades and put in the work to suceed enough to get into medical school and then graduate with his MD is a big testament to character. His actions to be here legally once he was able to take them are also good. Folks like him worked hard for what they have and where they are, regardless of how they got here.

The entitled folks who don't follow in his footsteps get 0 sympathy from me. You have no excuse. We need to do a better job of catching those with young children and getting them back over the border before it ever gets to a point where their illegal immigrant children have no knowledge of their country of origin and couldn't go back.
 

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You’d think, based on this thread, that there are as many people itching to pack Lady Liberty off to the land of discarded monuments as there are people with a desire to do the same to Confederate monuments.

From a Christian view, some of y’all need to reconcile your views with Genesis 1:27 and Luke 10:27. Pardon if that chafes and apologies to those here that don’t hold a Christian view.

Regardless of your beliefs, there’s no moral ambiguity in using the force of government to rip people out of their homes and send them to face war, poverty, or slavery based on the decisions or actions of their parents or grandparents. Invoking any law on the pretext of defending your life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness but with the net effect of stripping others of the same is beyond my ability to internally reconcile.
 

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pack Lady Liberty off to the land of discarded monuments
The immigrates that sailed by Her were processed in and did it the correct way, legally.
 

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Being dragged here illegally as a child is no excuse for remaining here illegally after they were old enough to know better. Deciding to remain a criminal is also no excuse to continue. People are dragged away from their families and taken to far away places much worse than being sent back to a home country for breaking laws. Think prison. Mothers, fathers and children are ripped from their homes and placed in prison because they break laws. The hard reality is they have stolen everything their whole life and continue their life of crime no matter how good their grades were. No matter who was harmed by their actions. They do not care they have zero morality yet some here want to preach morality to me? I am not tearing down the Statue of Liberty here. I am also not saying do not come here at all. Come here legally. According to the law. If you are here illegally then you deserve to be ripped from your family, jailed, any and everything you have gained taken from you and your family then sent back to your country. Your children born here can be left behind or taken with you.
 

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Being dragged here illegally as a child is no excuse for remaining here illegally after they were old enough to know better. Deciding to remain a criminal is also no excuse to continue. People are dragged away from their families and taken to far away places much worse than being sent back to a home country for breaking laws. Think prison. Mothers, fathers and children are ripped from their homes and placed in prison because they break laws. The hard reality is they have stolen everything their whole life and continue their life of crime no matter how good their grades were. No matter who was harmed by their actions. They do not care they have zero morality yet some here want to preach morality to me? I am not tearing down the Statue of Liberty here. I am also not saying do not come here at all. Come here legally. According to the law. If you are here illegally then you deserve to be ripped from your family, jailed, any and everything you have gained taken from you and your family then sent back to your country. Your children born here can be left behind or taken with you.
This is exactly my point. You enjoy your freedoms through no fault of your own yet you preach others deserve no such entitlement…I cannot understand how you internally reconcile that conflict.

You claim theft. You have failed to prove it. Throw numbers and citations to back your talking points.

You claim criminal. You can’t show mens rea of a child for another adult’s action.

You somehow think the answer is for someone to give up everything they’ve worked for and be removed to a place that isn’t their home to what end? You’ve failed to prove that would fix anything. At all. Deporting someone who is working, who is paying into that beloved welfare system people decry as going bankrupt, who is ineligible to draw down on the same for a decade after becoming properly papered will solve problems? How?!?
 

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The immigrates that sailed by Her were processed in and did it the correct way, legally.
For her first 38 years and arguably the first 148 years of this country, showing up was the “legal” method.
 

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xxk6ccyl1bu21.jpg


Caravan-Migrant-Pregnant-Climbs-Fence-Daniel-Ochoa-de-Olza-12272018.jpg


Pretty much does it for me.
 
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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
The immigrates that sailed by Her were processed in and did it the correct way, legally.
When the idea was born in Laboulaye's mind, there was, literally, no restriction on immigration to the United States, which explains a lot about the concept of the statue and its words.

Even after it was completed, immigration law consisted of paying 50 cents, not being criminally insane, a convicted felon, idiot, or unable to care for themselves. (excepting Chinese)


If you are going to appeal to facts, and history, you cannot do it in the complete ignorance of history, as so many Republicans do with so many of their arguments.
 

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This is exactly my point. You enjoy your freedoms through no fault of your own yet you preach others deserve no such entitlement…I cannot understand how you internally reconcile that conflict.
There is no conflict. Every country has an absolute right to determine who may or may not live within its borders. Or even just visit it. Otherwise that country has no sovereignty and loses its right to exist as a sovereign country. Some people believe that is unfair but every country has the opportunity to provide for their citizens fairly and equally. That doesn't necessarily mean every country is on an equal footing with every other country. It also shouldn't mean that a country is obligated to accept disgruntled and unhappy people from some other country.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
These people did everything "right." His parents (and him) working their tails off. His parents insisting that he be in all English classes so that he could assimilate, as an American. He got excellent grades, worked hard, paid taxes, and is here legally. But all you keep typing is "criminal." He is here legally.

Since he is now a doctor, he is probably going to pay more taxes over his career than all of his detractors here put together. So you can quit with the arguments about taxes and such.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
There is no conflict. Every country has an absolute right to determine who may or may not live within its borders. Or even just visit it. Otherwise that country has no sovereignty and loses its right to exist as a sovereign country. Some people believe that is unfair but every country has the opportunity to provide for their citizens fairly and equally. That doesn't necessarily mean every country is on an equal footing with every other country. It also shouldn't mean that a country is obligated to accept disgruntled and unhappy people from some other country.
That post does not really address 45_Fan's post at all, other than the first sentence, which is merely a contradiction with no support.

No it isn't.

Yes it is.

 

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These people did everything "right." His parents (and him) working their tails off. His parents insisting that he be in all English classes so that he could assimilate, as an American. He got excellent grades, worked hard, paid taxes, and is here legally. But all you keep typing is "criminal." He is here legally.

Since he is now a doctor, he is probably going to pay more taxes over his career than all of his detractors here put together. So you can quit with the arguments about taxes and such.
What do you mean they did everything right? So far they first broke the law by crossing the border illegally. Was that right? They continued to break the law for years by remaining here ILLEGALLY. I suppose that was right??? His parents and him working their tails off illegally. I guess you are going to tell me that was done right??? His parents insisting he be illegally in English only classes. Yep I can see where that was right. Not!! Since he was in any classes illegally. As for him being here legally now he cheated to jump the line and I suppose that action was done right? Nothing he or his family has done has been done right. I know it's the job of a lawyer to defend criminals and you are doing the best you can with limited information but the truth is in the details. He is guilty of multiple crimes. His family is guilty of multiple crimes. They are all guilty of multiple crimes over many years of comiting crimes. So not after all the crimes he comited throughout his entire life I am supposed to accept him as a law abiding legal resident because he cheated to get into med school? While he may be here legally now he has not been here legally as long as he was here illegally.

I worked hard from the time I was 14. I retired the first time quite well off in 1993. Since then I have retired 7 more times. The current one is hopefully the last attempt..Boredom is the largest problem when retiring. I ran a very successful business from 1976 to 1993. I had 21 full time employees working on 3 separate crews, One crew was staffed by 7 Mexican nationals I sponsored to come here LEGALLY. They were paid more than average as were all of my employees. I held out their taxes and issued their W-2 every year. In other words they did everything right.

Have you ever ran a business and had someone here illegally apply for a job? I have. They dod not have a social security card. They have a Employer tax ID. This is what you find out if you verify the SS number they give you. Most do not want to be paid on a W-2 and refuse to fill out a W-4. Most want a 1099. The very few that will fill out a W-4 will claim many dependents, I once had a 18 year old claim 10 children and a wife. I found out he was only 15 in a separate interview with his 17 year old brother applying at the same time. So no they do not pay taxes.

The people you are talking about had every chance to do everything right and refused to do so. They did everything wrong and nothing now or in the future can make up for all the wrong they have done. His father could have applied for a sponsor. He chose to come illegally. with a sponsor he could have brought his family here legally the next year. He chose to bring them here illegally. His family could have refused to come illegally. They chose to come illegally. Kids cross the border illegally at very young ages. When his kids were old enough to know what they were doing was illegal they chose to continue the illegal rout instead of making things right.

So no they did not do everything right. He did not do everything right. Facts say he did everything wrong.
 
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