"Don't taze me bro" continued...

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by Macktee, Oct 24, 2007.

  1. Macktee

    Macktee New Member

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    Anyone else surprised by the results of the "investigation"???



    URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21454383/


    MSNBC.com

    Police cleared in Tasing of Kerry questioner

    Sen. Kerry questioner was taken down after pleading, ‘Don't Tase me bro!’

    The Associated Press
    Updated: 12:47 p.m. ET Oct 24, 2007

    GAINESVILLE, Florida - University of Florida police were justified when they used a Taser against a student who refused to stop questioning Senator John Kerry at a campus event, according to a state investigation released Wednesday.

    A 17-page executive summary of the 300-page Florida Department of Law Enforcement report was released by the University of Florida after some questioned the use of force against student Andrew Meyer.

    The scuffle between Meyer and police started during the Sept. 17 speech when Meyer refused to leave the microphone after his allotted time was up, police said. The videotaped altercation and Meyer's cries of "Don't Tase me bro!" were played frequently on the Internet.

    "In short, the FDLE determined that our officers acted well within state guidelines," university President Bernie Machen said in a letter to students, faculty and staff.

    Machen said two officers who were placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation were reinstated Wednesday.

    Machen said his student-faculty committee to determine how existing event management rules can be improved will continue to meet.

    Meyer has been charged by police for resisting an officer and disturbing the peace, but the State Attorney's Office has not yet decided whether to file formal charges.

    :handcuffs:
     
  2. GunNut

    GunNut New Member

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    I think they should file charges and make an example of him.
     

  3. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    After getting the whole story, I think the officers’ actions were appropriate.

    I still think that the Taser should still only be used for self defense, not compliance, but that’s another topic all together.
     
  4. greatcountysky

    greatcountysky Guest

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  5. M249

    M249 New Member

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    Sure, I'd like to taze him for fun, along with every politician in Washington, D.C. (Ron Paul excluded). However, like many other folks on this board, I don't think tazers should be used as compliance tools by our Law Enforcement Officials.

    Yes, I recognize our LEOs have a rough, and often thankless, job, but just like GIs, "You signed on the dotted line."
     
  6. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter Active Member

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    Or as punishment...
     
  7. blind_shake

    blind_shake Well-Known Member

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    kinda like, "if its not lethal its ok..."
     
  8. fallison

    fallison Guest

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    What do you all suggest the police use for compliance then? Or do you believe that if someone resists, the police should just back off and let them go?
     
  9. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter Active Member

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    What I was speaking of specifically is this: in discussing this incident with my colleagues, many felt that he deserved to be tasered because of his actions. The taser was never meant to be an instrument of punishment: deserve should have nothing to do with the decision process of whether to tase or not to tase. The purpose of the taser, as I see it, is to allow an officer to control a situation such that the need for deadly force can be avoided.
     
  10. blind_shake

    blind_shake Well-Known Member

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    +1 is what I was replying to
     
  11. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter Active Member

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    In order, this is what I recommend:

    Officer Presence
    Verbal Communication
    Control Holds & Restraints
    Chemical Agents / Temporary Incapacitation (taser goes here)
    Deadly Force

    In the previous thread regarding this case, I disagreeded with the use of the taser 'cuz that had fairly well pinned the individual (i.e. he was under control) and used the taser to force him to comply with the cuffing.
     
  12. M249

    M249 New Member

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    I think Aeroshooter put it very well, except I'd put the Tazer just below deadly force, and would recommend pepper spray before a Tazer. Hell, I support a swift punch to the gut before a Tazer, and consider it an acceptable compliance tool if the individual is resisting. :)

    Anyway, I'm just a Monday morning quarterback who holds our .mil and LEO folks to high standards, and I think most of them meet those standards.
     
  13. legacy38

    legacy38 Well-Known Member

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    Tazers are actually considered a lesser use of force than OC or a baton as the tazer can be turned on and off instantly. A baton strike is going to hurt for a while, especially if a bone is broken or there is a deep bruise. OC hurts for a long time, and it comes back for a return trip when the recipient takes a shower (and all of the water heads south).

    The only issue that I have with the incident in question here is that the number of officers they had on scene should have been able to easily cuff and remove the guy without having to use the gizmo and the officers not really being sure of their actions such as not being able to specifically cite the charges at the time of arrest. One of the officers actually told him he was being charged with inciting a riot.
     
  14. M249

    M249 New Member

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    Maybe so, but I'd rather have a broken arm or stinging eyes than a heart stoppage. :p

    Just don't taze me, bro!
     
  15. fallison

    fallison Guest

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    My point is there is going to be risks involved with any physical compliance techniques. My expectation is for law enforcement agencies to look at the options, weigh the effectiveness against the risks, and develop policy for escalation. Without seeing the studies done, I will not second guess them. If the idiot was tazed within policy, then the officers didn't do wrong. If you believe the policy is bad then present the empirical evidence, not just ancedotal stories.
    :D
     
  16. GACop

    GACop Member

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    I have to respectfully disagree with you. If I am in a deadly force situation, I am going to use deadly force. I am not going to place my life in the hands of an ECD/Electronic Control Device. I'm going to rely on my ability to accurately shoot my handgun to stop the threat.

    The purpose of the TASER is to assist the officer in taking control of situations that would otherwise require physical force. TASER tells you in their training that they never intended it to be a substitute for deadly force.

    Using hands, baton, and chemical sprays have all resulted in the death of suspects. They have also resulted in numerous injuries to officers and costs probably millions in taxpayers dollars for workman's comp claims.

    The TASER has reduced officer workman comps claims by 100% in some jurisdictions. They also have resulted in double digit percentage drops to injuries to suspects.

    If there is a tool that reduces officer and suspect injuries, why would you not want officers to use it? Even if it only made officers safer, why would you not want us to use it?

    At the end of the day, if someone has to risk being hurt or injured, why would it not logically be the person that is resisting arrest and breaking the law?
     
  17. AeroShooter

    AeroShooter Active Member

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    There is no diagreement between our positions. I just simply looked at the situation in the limit.

    I'm actually in favor of using a taser in place of chemical sprays for the very reasons you've described.

    I'm in favor of improved safety for all parties involved, especially the officer's. [Note: I'm speaking genuine officer safety, not the 'officer safety' that is used as an excuse to run ramshod over personal liberties]

    I'm not arguing against the taser, in fact I approve of its use by the civilian police force. The question I"m considering is when is it legally / morally / ethically appropriate to deploy it against a person.
     
  18. merlock

    merlock Active Member

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    :lol:
     
  19. ls1ssdavid

    ls1ssdavid New Member

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    Not just to avoid deadly force, but also any force can have longer lasting injury's more than a 5 second volt. Could save an officer a broken arm or even the perp for example. I would rather get tazed and hate life for 5 seconds then to get beat with an asp and have broken bones. Just a though and my two cents.
     
  20. ls1ssdavid

    ls1ssdavid New Member

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    +1. Well said