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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been hearing more and more about this and it (to be frank) is pissing me off. People who are afraid of the Patriot Act should be terrified by this - it doesn't have even the HINT of judicial oversight.

Worst part of the original blog post:

Debbie is a mom from Uxbridge who was in the examination room when the pediatrician asked her 5-year-old, “Does Daddy own a gun?â€

When the little girl said yes, the doctor began grilling her and her mom about the number and type of guns, how they are stored, etc.

If the incident had ended there, it would have merely been annoying.

But when a friend in law enforcement let Debbie know that her doctor had filed a report with the police about her family’s (entirely legal) gun ownership, she got mad."
In my opinion, this has to be stopped and should be illegal, but I'm hearing more and more of this (gf is a nurse). I learned of this particular article from Limbaugh's show today, but he nailed it when he read a pertinent section from the novel, "1984" that comments directly on this sort of thing.

October 05, 2007
Children as state informants - Thomas Lifson

I remember being horrified as a child when I learned in the 1950s that under communism children were turned into informants against their parents. I could not believe that the cold hand of the state could be so cruel as turn child and parent against each other.

But it is beginning to happen in America. Michael Graham of the Boston Herald writes a hair-raising account of his child's recent visit to a pediatrician. I came across it on Jules Crittenden's blog. Graham writes:
"The doctor wanted to know how much you and mom drink, and if I think it's too much," my daughter told us afterward, rolling her eyes in that exasperated 13-year-old way. "She asked if you two did drugs, or if there are drugs in the house."

"What!" I yelped. "Who told her about my stasher, I mean, ‘It's an outrage!' "

I turned to my wife. "You took her to the doctor. Why didn't you say something?"

She couldn't, she told me, because she knew nothing about it. All these questions were asked in private, without my wife's knowledge or consent.

"The doctor wanted to know how we get along," my daughter continued. Then she paused. "And if, well, Daddy, if you made me feel uncomfortable."

Great. I send my daughter to the pediatrician to find out if she's fit to play lacrosse, and the doctor spends her time trying to find out if her mom and I are drunk, drug-addicted sex criminals.
Graham goes on to cite the case of a child being asked about her parents' weapons, all perfectly legal, and the police being informed.

Children are being turned into police informants via their doctor (and nevermind medical confidentiality). This turns out to be widespread, since professional guidelines for pediatricians from the American Academy of Pediatrics recommend interrogating children about the parents.

Isn't this the sort of thing that liberals claim they are against? Isn't this a lot worse than asking librarians about who has been checking out books about explosives? I thought liberals got excited when the state sticks its nose into the bedroom. But if it turns out that Mom and Dad have their gun safe there, apparently liberals are okay with it.

Because it goes without saying that people who regard guns in the house as per se suspicious are nearly all liberals. It is all done in the name of the best of intentions, of course. Most of the people implementing the policy really do think they are minimizing the risk to children by getting guns out of the house.

For the progressive cause, this sort of intrusion is a two-fer, because it weakens the bonds of family. Ever since Rousseau, the left has regarded the family as an obstacle to the revolutionary transformation of human nature they seek.

Graham makes this point.
"We used to be proud parents. Now, thanks to the AAP, we're ‘persons of interest.'

"The paranoia over parents is so strong that the AAP encourages doctors to ignore ‘legal barriers and deference to parental involvement' and shake the children down for all the inside information they can get."
I am not holding my breath waiting for the ACLU to take up the cause of family privacy. Teachers and school administrators in government schools have been known to try to turn their charges into informants, too. The left's big boys are cool with it.

If this sort of thing isn't a milepost on the road to fascism, what is? The state collaborating with a workers organization to peer inside the homes of citizens?"
 

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I would never in a million years leave my child alone with anyone I didn't know extremely well, even a doctor. Before reading your post I was just worried about the sicko pervs and child abductors, now I am worried about the libs too. Dang those nosy bastards. Don't they have anything better to do?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I wanted to post my gf's response to the email I sent her on this earlier today. I have blocked out her institution's name so there, like, won't be any bias:

YIKES! The editorial is disturbing, but not surprising. "Gun control" is a worshipped political value among the nursing community and the faculty at E***y LOVE to come up with fabricated statistics to support the cause.

For example, one website I visited (e.g., www.childrensdefense.org) included a pamphlet titled, "Protect Children, Not Guns 2007," in which the author states that "every day, nearly eight children or teens are killed by gun violence in America." Well, I couldn't help myself...I visited the CDC's MMWR site and here are the actual statistics for 2004-2005 ( the most recent data available)-the same source, by the way, that the author of the pamphlet "cited":

Total number of deaths, <1-19 year-olds 2004 = 142/month = 4.7/day

In other words, the author almost doubled the value provided by the CDC to illustrate his or her point. Pathetic....
 

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My 11 year old is under instructions to tell anyone who asks questions of that nature to tell them, you have to ask my Mom or Dad. I and my wife consistently remind him that if I want someone to know our business that I will be the one who tells them.
 

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Reason #9567 to not have any kids.
Yes, but if we all follow that logic there wouldn't be any people left to defend the good ol' American values for the next generation. :-k

I don't have any children yet, but I plan to raise a family one day, and I will do my best to teach them to think for themselves and have some common sense.
 

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Many years ago when my kids were very young the pediatricians initial form asked the normal health questions AND "are there any guns in the house". Back then I wasn't as "into" guns, but still recognized how invasive a question that was. I just left it blank and nobody asked.

This really doesn't surprise me at all.
 

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moonchicken said:
Reason #9567 to not have any kids.
Yes, but if we all follow that logic there wouldn't be any people left to defend the good ol' American values for the next generation. :-k

I don't have any children yet, but I plan to raise a family one day, and I will do my best to teach them to think for themselves and have some common sense.
Yea, and I've considered that too. It's a tough choice. But, fortunately it's one I don't have to make right now.
 

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I had the same situation the beginning of the school year. My kids needed a check up for school so my wife brought them down. when she came back she told me that the nurse asked a bunch of questions and one was are there any guns in the home. she just told them no. If I was there I would have told them it was none of their damn business. I guess the better way to handle it would be to ask why that pertains to anything, then sit back and listen to the regurgitated nonsense and then try to educate her but Id probably be just waisting my time and get aggravated. I guess thats why my wife goes to these things and just says no.
 

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I teach my girls the four rules to firearms and added our own 5th.

No one needs to know what we own or what we do with what we own.
 

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S&W 40 said:
I teach my girls the four rules to firearms and added our own 5th.

No one needs to know what we own or what we do with what we own.
....now add, "or where/how we keep them".

Just got back from Toys-R-Us. Had to pick up a quick gift for a b-day party. I was interrogated as to why I didn't want to sign up my girl for the b-day club. I explained that I didn't feel it was necessary to give all that personal info so they could create a directory for pedophiles, all to get a call from Jeffrey the giraffe (a recording no doubt), a $3 coupon, and a balloon. Then I got to the register and again had to justify to them why I didn't feel it was necessary to give them my phone number. Good grief.

PS My new MTAC hid my new Glock 19 quite well (and comfortably) under just a tee.
 

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With all these kid touchers running the streets, I wouldn't leave my child alone with anybody I didn't know or trust either. As far as asking doctor my child about guns, all I imagine is my 3 yr old doing is pointing at my iwb G27, saying "My daddy's pow-pow is right there". :oops:
 

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triggerman357 said:
With all these kid touchers running the streets, I wouldn't leave my child alone with anybody I didn't know or trust either. As far as asking doctor my child about guns, all I imagine is my 3 yr old doing is pointing at my iwb G27, saying "My daddy's pow-pow is right there". :oops:
At that point the doctor's face would be like this :shock:

Haha. Priceless. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
triggerman357 said:
With all these kid touchers running the streets, I wouldn't leave my child alone with anybody I didn't know or trust either. As far as asking doctor my child about guns, all I imagine is my 3 yr old doing is pointing at my iwb G27, saying "My daddy's pow-pow is right there". :oops:
Absolutely classic. Or just a polite, "Well, there are none in the house right now because it's here on my belt."

But, then again, you'd be lying because we all know there's one on your ankle as well... :wink:
 

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Tales like this remind me why I'm not an AAP member. The reports that AAP inflates figures of childhood firearms injuries are 100% CORRECT. Around 1993-1994, their stats for 'children killed by firearms' included 'kids' up to and including 21 years old.

Those of us who are not kool-aid-guzzlin' "party members" will augment (and streamline) that question on the standardized forms to "If there are any guns, hazardous chemicals, matches, or lighters in the home, are they secured such that the children don't have access to them?"

And if the parents then mention that the kids have been taught safe firearms handling, I always make a point of saying "Good job."

eta --
S&W 40 said:
No one needs to know what we own or what we do with what we own.
Good policy!
 

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Print this out and take to your child's doctor.

Cost to print=$.10

Look on the doctor's face= priceless.

Doctors Practice Form For Patients

FIREARMS SAFETY COUNSELING REPRESENTATION:

PHYSICIAN QUALIFICATIONS AND LIABILITY

Part One: Qualifications

I affirm that I am certified to offer (Name of Patient: ), herineafter referred to as "the Patient", qualified advice about firearms safety in the home, having received:

Specify Course(s) of Study: ____________________________________________________________

from:

Specify Institution(s) ____________________________________________________________

on:

Specify Course Completion Date(s): ______________________________________________________

resulting in:

Specify Accreditation(s), Certification(s), License(s) etc.: _______________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________

Check one, as appropriate:

___ I represent that I have reviewed applicable scientific literature pertaining to defensive gun use and beneficial results of private firearms ownership. I further represent that I have reviewed all other relevant home safety issues with the Patient, including those relating to electricity, drains, disposals, compactors, garage doors, driveway safety, pool safety, pool fence codes and special locks for pool gates, auto safety, gas, broken glass, stored cleaning chemicals, buckets, toilets, sharp objects, garden tools, home tools, power tools, lawnmowers, lawn chemicals, scissors, needles, forks, knives, etc. I also acknowledge, by receiving this document, I have been made aware that, in his inaugural address before the American Medical Association on June 20, 2001, new president Richard Corlin, MD, admitted "What we don't know about violence and guns is literally killing us...researchers do not have the data to tell how kids get guns, if trigger locks work, what the warning signs of violence in schools and at the workplace are and other critical questions due to lack of research funding." (UPI). In spite of this admission, I represent that I have sufficient data and expertise to provide expert and clinically sound advice to patients regarding firearms in the home.

OR

___ I am knowingly engaging in Home/Firearms Safety Counseling without certification, license or formal training in Risk Management, and; I have not reviewed applicable scientific literature pertaining to defensive gun use and beneficial results of private firearms ownership.

Part Two: Liability

I have determined, from a review of my medical malpractice insurance, that if I engage in an activity for which I am not certified, such as Firearms Safety Counseling, the carrier (check one, as appropriate):

___ will

___ will not

cover lawsuits resulting from neglect, lack of qualification, etc.

Insurance Carrier name, address and policy number insuring me for firearms safety expertise:

____________________________________________________________________________________

I further warrant that, should the Patient follow my firearm safety counseling and remove from the home and/or disable firearms with trigger locks or other mechanisms, and if the patient or a family member, friend or visitor is subsequently injured or killed as a result of said removal or disabling, that my malpractice insurance and/or personal assets will cover all actual and punitive damages resulting from a lawsuit initiated by the patient, the patient's legal reprerentative, or the patient's survivors.

Signature of attesting physician and date: ___________________________________________________

Name of attesting physician (please print):__________________________________________________

Signature of patient and date: ____________________________________________________________

Name of patient (please print):____________________________________________________________

Note to patient: Indicate if physician "REFUSED TO SIGN." Ask physician to place copy in chart/medical record.

Risk Management Advice to Physicians and Malpractice Insurance Providers: Don't Borrow Trouble

© 2000 by Joe Horn [email protected] ...
 

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This thread is older than Macktee. It is kind of funny though, back in Oct 07 I made ref to carrying my G19 under only a t-shirt and no one being the wiser. Same setup today, even with the t-shirt tucked in.
 
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