Don't ask Don't Tell......

Discussion in 'Off-topic Political' started by seereus, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. seereus

    seereus Active Member

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    Has just been re-instated according to Fox, once again proving the current administration has no damn clue as to what they are doing.
     
  2. cbp0229

    cbp0229 Member

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    They are trying to get congress to get rid of it so that it can't be reimplemented by another administration without a law change. The Obama administration thinks that the court is interfering with that effort.
     

  3. higabyte

    higabyte New Member

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    this is horseshit imo ...

    they haven't even fully thought this through. i have nothing against gays, but the military is just not an establishment that is setup for them to effectively serve.

    i think with proper planning it could be pulled off, but to just up and say one day, hey gays are allowed, is going to open a whole can of worms we're not prepared for.
     
  4. cherok

    cherok New Member

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    :puke: :bsflag: :banghead: :screwy:
     
  5. mb90535im

    mb90535im Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.

    Gays have served "effectively" in the U.S. armed services, thousands have served with honor over the past couple of centuries and fought and died for their country just like hetrosexuals. In order to do so however they have to hide the fact that they are gay.

    This type of discrimination causes the words of the Declration of Independence's preamble to ring hollow -

     
  6. higabyte

    higabyte New Member

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    You are correct sir. However, it was not publicly known. The problem lies in the fact that with gays openly serving, you run into many problems.

    I'm not saying they don't have the right to serve openly, I'm not saying they don't have the right to serve at all, etc. They can and should be able to. But what I am saying is, there just needs to be proper planning to avoid issues, especially at the lower ranks. I'd hate to see hate crimes and things of that nature. People getting stupid in the heat of the moment and doing stupid things. It's going to be a huge leadership challenge.

    Also, these are my specific thoughts and opinions, right or wrong, and are in no way the specific view of the Marine Corps or any other Marine and/or other service members.
     
  7. Hack Causality

    Hack Causality New Member

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    Such as? Considering that people who feel they cannot get through the day without expressing their sexual orientation probably don't join the military in the first place, I highly doubt the number of gays who join will change a significant amount. What will change is the number of men and women who get thrown out for no reason at all.

    How are the challenges of that any different from any other group? Muslims in the military, Hindus, atheists, asians, latinos, people with funny accents, foreigners, short guys, gingers; the list goes on and on. If the military can control hate crime on those groups, they can control hate crime on gay soldiers.
     
  8. higabyte

    higabyte New Member

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    Military has controlled hate crimes so well, you have people like Nidal Hasan, who killed 12 and injured 31, or what about Asan Akbar who threw that grenade in the chow hall tent or whatever in Kuwait a few years back?
     
  9. CountryGun

    CountryGun New Member

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    Hig,

    I'd probably agree with you on 99% of the issues, but herein I disagree.

    I served alongside of many soldiers in Viet Nam who were "obviously" gay. All of us knew it. It never once compromised our mission. The fear of homosexuals only effect the homophobes who are confused about their own orientation. Every queer I was ever around knew better than to touch me, lest he suffer a broken jaw. My guess is that the men and women in the military services will sort this out. We are around gay people every day and never know it. Most would never be detected unless they said so. The guy who really flames, might well be found under a foot of mud, in the pit, but that's where the cookie will crumble. Gays who act straight, will be accepted. Somebody in a pink dress will not likely survive. Do you know all of the gays around you?

    The incidence of gayness is about one in ten service wide, and is no different than what is found in the civilian sector. It doesn't make any difference what service you're in. I worked with AIDS patience for eleven years. The incidence of gayness in the Marines was no different than I saw in the Army, Air Force, or Marines. It's a fact of life. I, for one, am of the opinion that a gay man or woman can accomplish the mission as well as anybody straight.
     
  10. higabyte

    higabyte New Member

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    I don't think I properly portrayed what I was trying to say and not really sure how to explain it lol. So I'm going to shut up. lol
     
  11. dunkel

    dunkel New Member

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    I've served with gay soldiers, both genders, all ranks. Some of them were dirtbags, but some were great soldiers.

    Of course, that was all in support units. Combat arms is a totally different mentality. It has to be. And, to be perfectly frank, there is a lot of horsing around with those guys. Some of it, um, well, is kinda "gay". If you haven't been there, I'm not sure I can really explain it. Not trying to sound mysterious or whatever, just saying that if you haven't seen it, any explanation is not really adequate. I know we have some infantry guys on the board, so maybe they can explain it better. Anyway, I'm just not sure how a genuinely gay soldier would fit in with that particular culture.

    And I know that some people will belittle this argument, but I think it's valid...if they are going to force straight and openly gay soldiers of the same gender to live together, how can they reasonably justify segregating male and female soldiers? The same problems and issues are present, regardless of particular gender or sexual orientation involved, are they not?
     
  12. kineticmind

    kineticmind يفخر الكافر

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    Since this is such a hot-button issue, why not just have the rule apply to everybody?

    If you're a dude who likes to sleep with women... great. Just don't ask, don't tell. If you're a dude who likes to sleep with dudes... fine. Don't ask, don't tell. If you're a dude who likes to sleep with farm animals... err, well... maybe those guys should be discouraged from serving. :shattered:

    Regardless, if you sign up to serve your country, your priorities should be just that... serving your country. If you want to pine away over your significant other, that's fine... just do it on your own time and keep it to yourself. That level of professionalism, though probably just wishful thinking, would surely be welcomed in the world's finest military.
     
  13. mb90535im

    mb90535im Well-Known Member

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    No need to hold back your opinion. I do understand that you are saying it just needs to be transitioned in an orderly fashion and I believe that is at least one of the reasons the current administration is fighting the court order overturning Don't Ask Don't Tell. I'm sure the same paced, deliberate panning was needed when the armed services was first racially integrated.

    I'm just having a hard time with the concept of a hetero solider being able to for example keep a picture of his or her spouse or SO pinned to the wall or framed on a bedside table whereas a homosexual solider must remain "in the closet" and hidden or when it is "family day" at the base the heterosexual being able to enjoy the occasion, and the homosexual solider is left alone. It just doesn't sit as "right" with me, a heterosexual.
     
  14. TippinTaco

    TippinTaco New Member

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    It's ok guys I got this one.

    How clueless are you for one? Has mentioned below gays have served in the military for a very long time. Not openly known? Sorry man but its not to hard to know when a guy is gay. rule of thumb was that the soldier who was gay couldn't ever come out and say: I am gay.

    The military opinion that knowing that a soldier is gay would compromise a mission is political :bsflag: and its the only answer any homophobe has to keep gays from OPENLY serving in our military. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this one sits along side the gun grabbers who try to remove our weapons and kill our 2A rights. They have these completely ignorant rants on how guns kill people and how if we removed them from the world it would be a safer place. Not going to fly honestly. If anything removing DADT will strengthen our military now because gays can OPENLY SERVE OUR MILITARY WITHOUT RIDICULE OR BE FACED WITH DISCHARGE. I'm sorry but you need to open your eyes and realize all the things you were told about gays growing up is complete utter BS and that 99% of anyones fears about them has been created by some homophobe that feels that soldiers should be able to scream hooooraaahhh and not scream heeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyy. If you can carry a rifle, wear a uniform, shoot a target and carry at a mission then wtf can't you serve the military no matter your sexuality? Whens the last time a gay guy or girl went on a shooting rampage killing their fellow platoon members? I'd be very interested in finding out how many gays in the military have received prestigious awards for serving and accomplishments? I'm going to leave you with a cartoon that I feel is VERY appropriate for this occasion:

    Just remember serving our country and those who you love, shouldn't be a question of your sexuality and religion but on your ability to be able to do so. This isn't 1950 anymore and if you look around and notice that straight southern men and women are starting to support our gay friends more and more each and every day. Some people will remain close minded until they pass, and slowly but surely the saying "Out with the old in with the new is slowly" comes to mind and now I have a reason to take my bestest gay friends out for a drink and dinner tonight and celebrate with them that now it may be possible they wil be treated like the americans they are, and one day they may have all the same rights and liberties as the rest of us.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. BG_Atl

    BG_Atl Active Member

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    I normally avoid these conversations because they really tend to get my back up, but in this case...

    First - Thank You ! :shock:
    There is a similar thread running on another board and it's gotten REALLY ugly.
    It's good to know that the folks here are considerably more intelligent and civil.

    Second - I have never served in the military so I can't speak directly to that - but...
    I did "serve" as a member of a Volunteer Fire Department. Please note that I did say VOLUNTEER,
    that means that we didn't get paid for walking into burning buildings or rescuing folks in dangerous
    situations. There were several openly gay members in that department and many CLEARLY straight
    members. We all showered together and for relatively short periods (3-4 days depending on
    anticipated situations) bunked together. In that group, there were straight AND gay guys that I
    would confidently walked into a disaster with and others... of BOTH types that I would rather have stuck
    to fetching hoses, blankets and coffee. No one wore a pink tutu over their gear or high heels instead
    of their boots. Being gay is NOT the total sum of my life, it's just a fact of it.

    I'm sorry to disappoint some folks when I break the news that not every gay man wants to "get some"
    with every straight man they see. Since I am one of them... I have to assume that although straight
    men may admire every hot girl that walks by, they rarely jump on every one of them. :roll:
     
  16. kestak

    kestak New Member

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    Greetings,

    I am not gay. Will never be. I do not hate/dislike/"fear" gays.

    I had in Canada a few gay friends and 2 neighbours gay couples.

    We always got along very well. I am always surprised how much the gay subject brings the worse of almost everyone.

    Having said that, my gay friends (and me) believe there are two kinds of gays:
    a) Borned gays
    b) Became gays

    Some will say the category a) is a mental disorder and the category b) is perversion.
    I think it is not what the nature intended. If a species would be completely7 gay, it would go extinct.

    But I will say those who parade in Montreal, SanFransicko, ect half-naked are the perverted. The other ones live am honest and productive life and I don't care what they do in the bedroom as long as I am not in that bedroom. :D

    Thank you
    P.S.: And my gay friends here, don't expect me not to continue to say gay jokes! I had to get away with my N...gers jokes because the society has a broom so deep in its butthole (pun intended...hehehehehe) that now we are banning words.

    P.P.S.:
    There was this man who walked into a bar and says to the bartender 10 shots of whiskey.
    The bartender asks, "What's the matter?"
    The man says, "I found out my brother is gay and marrying my best friend."
    The next day the same man comes in and orders 12 shots of whiskey.
    The bartenders asks, "What's wrong this time?"
    The man says, "I found out that my son is gay."
    The next day the same man comes in the bar and orders 15 shots of whiskey.
    Then the bartender asks, "Doesn't anyone in your family like women?"
    The man looks up and says, "Apparently my wife does."
     
  17. TippinTaco

    TippinTaco New Member

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    No need to be amazed or thank anyone. No matter your sexual preference you're still an american and a humanbeing. Don't apologize for anything for you have done nothing wrong. You sir have people in this world that want to stand up and fight for our rights but deny another american his or hers because of their sexual orientation. I'm sure your community appreciates your volunteer work and I'm 100% CERTAIN that if a building was to burn down and a woman or man was trapped in side, he wouldnt turn you away because you're gay. So please never apologize to anyone. Keep your head high and remember one day, you sir will have every right the rest of americans have, and you will be seen as a human being. It's only taking time. I as a straight man stand beside you no matter what and will do all I can to help you fight the fight.
     
  18. Nullifier

    Nullifier Active Member

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    Thousands of gays have served our military honorably (and a few of them, not so honorably) since we first had a military to begin with. There were at least three gays who served under General George Washington during that long, cold, harsh winter at Valley Forge in 1778. Google the name Lt. Frederick Gotthold Enslin for details.

    What kind of anti-American rabble-rouser would dare say that that any soldier who survived the winter at Valley Forge under George Washington, was "unfit to serve". I'd be proud to honor ANY soldiers who served with Gen. Washington. What they did to stay warm that winter instead of freezing to death, in the privacy of their tents, is THEIR business, not mine.

    Just one example.
     
  19. Nullifier

    Nullifier Active Member

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    Or blacks, or women, or Native Americans, or Japanese-Americans in WWII, or Hispanics, or people with disabilities......

    This is the same, tired old argument that has been proven false, again and again and again.
     
  20. TippinTaco

    TippinTaco New Member

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    Preach it Nullifier. :righton: