Do you believe in providence?

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by Malum Prohibitum, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I am not talking about miracles, or the suspension of natural laws for a supernatural event, but God's interaction in the world influencing things through the natural world for the outcome he desires over the long term.

    Here is an article about the difference if you are still not clear.
    https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/105-study-of-divine-providence-a

    If you already understand what I am asking, then feel free to skip the link and discuss (and, by the way, atheist and agnostic are welcome in this thread, so long as your comments are respectful and on topic. Since the title specifically asks about belief, it assumes that some of the answers will be NO). It would be appreciated if folks gave more than just a one word answer.

    Tie it to history if you want, or modern events, or where this country is heading, feel free to put whatever spin on it you wish.

    Looking forward to hearing from you. All on topic opinions welcome.
     
  2. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

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    I do not. I believe if people follow God's teachings, good/positive outcomes will be the result. The same for societal groups of people as well. People might call that 'providence'; I simply call it the predictable result of following sound rules for living and interacting with others.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019

  3. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Yes, I believe in what I have called minor miracles-- amazingly good luck that defies the odds of random probability.

    I think these things are rare, and they should be rare, in keeping with what I believe is God's plan NOT to directly interfere in the lives of humanity and the workings of our earthly world "too much," lest His amazing omnipotence overcome free will and basically force people to obey Him out of fear and instinct for self-preservation, not being with God spiritually and in harmony, with love.

    A few months ago, a guest pastor at our church gave this example from his life, several years ago. He had prepared a sermon based on one chapter of some book of the Bible. He named it, but I forget what it was. Say, Malum 11, verses 5-7. Then the idea popped in his head that he should set that aside, not give that sermon for months, and instead make a new sermon for next Sunday based on some other scripture that was on an entirely different topic, and this "inner voice" of his named that other scripture. Let's just call it Moe 6.

    He asked himself, "Is the Holy Spirit directing me to teach from Moe 6? Or am I just experiencing a wandering mind and a vivid imagination? He flipped open his Bible and re-read Moe 6, and found nothing in particular as being especially timely, or appropriate, for that week, or that congregation he'd be speaking to on Sunday.

    So he set the matter aside, and decided to pray and ponder it. Right now, he thought, he'd stick to his plan to do the Malum 11 sermon, unless and until he got another bit of inspiration or motivation to teach from Moe 6.

    As he drove home from his office, he turned on the car radio. It was a song by (and I'm making this up) a singer named Moe.
    He flipped the dial to another station.
    A few minutes later, a song called "Moe's Gonna Get You" came on the radio.
    He passed by a billboard that said "Eat at Moe's."
    When he stopped for gas, he parked right next to a political campaign sign for Moe Washington, candidate for County Commission--- district 6.

    He couldn't believe all this was happening. Except, really, he COULD, and DID believe.
    God was sending a message to him.

    He wrote a sermon based on Moe, Chapter 6, that night. The words came easily and he found inspiration to make some really good points out of what he'd thought was a pretty bland passage of Scripture at first. (He'd never used Moe 6 in a sermon before, and he couldn't recall ever hearing another preacher doing so either).

    His sermon was well-received that Sunday.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  4. atlsrt44

    atlsrt44 Well-Known Member

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    Providence Rhode island? I've never been there but I believe it exists
     
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  5. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    So, for example, when the Babylonians breached the walls of Jerusalem and took the inhabitants captive, you do not think this was providential? Or when the Romans razed the temple to the ground in AD 70? Neither of those involve following good teachings or good/positive outcomes, but quite the opposite. Scripture (one example from the Old Testament, and one from the New Testament) pretty clearly teaches that both of these were providential.

    You still say no? Both are historical events. Just random chance?
     
  6. Tinkerhell

    Tinkerhell Active Member

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    I believe it absolutely. I believe more miraculous things happen as well they just are not on twitter and insta-whatever. One of the main things about the Bible that most people overlook is that often dozens or hundreds of years pass between events and often time very few people were directly involved in them. As much as I wish someone was walking around on the earth, openly and expansively working miracles in God's name through His power that's just how I would do it. Not the right way of doing things to accomplish what God desires to accomplish. (But I would so totally have people walking around healing AND smiting. LOL. I'd make a bad god I suspect.)

    With that said I believe that what most people would call luck or karma is God's providence. I think the Holy Spirit's influence should also be considered as providence I guess. The things that people are inclined to do that are not personally beneficial for them I think comes from His influence.

    I said all that poorly but it's not a one word answer anyway. heh.
     
  7. NTA

    NTA Well-Known Member

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    I'm certainly ready to believe but after 70 years, I'm still looking for something that shows outside influence on human events.
     
  8. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

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    I don't believe the phenomenon occurs present day.
     
  9. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    Ask most any democrat. They will reverse apply it to Trump winning.

    Nemo
     
  10. NTA

    NTA Well-Known Member

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    And it is hard to know what happened in past day given all the languages and interpretations and translations and motivations. But I do like a good story.

    I do believe what I can see. And that means intelligent design. It's everywhere obvious.

    But who is the designer ? Unknown and probably unknowable.
     
  11. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    It does. I can attest as to the fun loving nature of its Brown girls. :drink::woohoo:
     
  12. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    I believe in providence. Some believe the election of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was a miracle. I believe it was providence.
     
  13. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    I believe it was voter ignorance.
     
  14. Nemo

    Nemo Man of Myth and Legend

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    As in a get up off your backside on the couch to those in whats commonly referred to as the silent majority of reasonably conservative.

    Nemo
     
  15. Mike J

    Mike J Member

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    I'm not sure I can word this correctly but I'll try anyway. I do believe God arranges things to serve his purpose. I don't know if I would call it foresight because I don't think the rules of time apply to God in the same way they do to us. I tend to think he exists outside of time. That he can see all time at the same time. I also believe God still works miracles. I believe God is the same today, yesterday & forever. If I believe the Bible is his word I don't think I could believe otherwise.
     
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  16. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Providence could be accomplished through voter ignorance.
     
  17. 45_Fan

    45_Fan Well-Known Member

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    FTA:
    At a minimum, the word choice does not sit well with me.

    Does God both intervene and provide? Yes.
    Does God go against his own law? No, but please feel free to provide a counter example if I am wrong here.

    Compare and contrast a cosmic clockmaker view of God with a personal relatable view?
     
  18. Savannah Dan

    Savannah Dan Cross-drawer

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    I have had some pretty cool things happen in the last 12 months that I don't think can be totally explained by good planning alone on my part.
    Had one huge sh!tstorm too, though. But hey, variety is the spice of life, right? :)
     
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  19. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    I love Moe's! :yum: :love: Can't speak to the sermon though. :mrgreen:
     
  20. Ronnie

    Ronnie Member

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    I believe in providence...Donald J. Trump as President of the United States of America.



     
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