Developers of Mosque Near Ground Zero Seek Federal Funds

Discussion in 'Off-topic Political' started by al-Tariqh, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. al-Tariqh

    al-Tariqh New Member

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    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/22/pr ... s-alloted/

    Obviously, I am for a freedom of religion in this country. And anywhere there are Christians they should build a church, and anywhere there are Muslims they should build a mosque. That is why this place is known as little Syria. But to use federal funds for this project crosses a line. I wouldn't support a church or a mosque built with government money. Maybe there is a problem with purse strings. Never trust a government that is handing you money, there is always a catch.
     
  2. mountainpass

    mountainpass Under Scrutiny

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    al-Tariqh I think you are missing the point. The point is to get under the skin of Americans, that's the main reason they want to build the mosque there. To get government money to do it is just another dig.
     

  3. Melissa5

    Melissa5 Active Member

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    The head Muslim in the White House will probably work behind the scenes to make sure they get the money.
     
  4. al-Tariqh

    al-Tariqh New Member

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    So he was accused of believing everything his minister taught him with Black Liberation theology(despite claiming he didn't hear the more incendiary messages), because he spent over 20 years there. AND you also claim he's a Muslim, because he spent his youth in Indonesia, his father was Muslim, and doesn't buy into the idea that Israel will rebuild the temple so that it can be destroyed again, triggering the end of days and the rapture. Have I got that about right?

    So which one is he, a Black Liberation Theology Christian, or a secret Muslim?

    But aside from the incoherent messages from the bigots on the forum, there are a number of Muslim living around Manhattan. I am highly doubtful of the claim that the Burlington Coat factory is hallowed ground. Doesn't the fact that this group had been operating out of the place for a number of years, and it only became an issue just before the election make you at all suspicious of the motives of these protesters?

    I stand by my warning of taking government money for the project. No good can come from it. Secondly, it sounds like they are having troubling raising money. Isn't it also weird that the biggest backer for this project is the largest minority stakeholder in News Corp., Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal. Sounds like as the controversy heats up, and people tune in to Fox to hear about it, he makes more money. Perhaps its a manufactured story.
     
  5. Melissa5

    Melissa5 Active Member

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    Where do you think Obama was born? I'm not even sure he's an American citizen.

    Anyway, I am not surprised that the Muslims are asking us to pay for their mosque since they have the extreme bad taste to want to build it anywhere near Ground Zero.
     
  6. al-Tariqh

    al-Tariqh New Member

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    Well, I doubt Hawaii is lying about it. But let's say that the other 'birthers' are right. Then he wouldn't have run. Then John McCain would've won, right? Wrong. Hillary Clinton would have won the nomination and she would be president instead. So really, even if MCCain had won, would our foreign policy be different? Would he have opposed the stimulus? If Hillary won, you can be sure health care would have come up. Let's say you prove he wasn't eligible to be president, then who is president? Joe Biden? How would things be different with him?

    Get over it, people hated Republicans in 2008. A Democrat would have won regardless. Now they hate the Democrats. The fact is they are the same party. They take turns being the bad guys.

    And both will take advantage of ignorance and the bigotry that stems from it.

    But like the drug dealer, both will offer something for free just to keep you coming back.
     
  7. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    It crosses the line.

    I think a free people should be able to build a place of worship wherever they please. But lets be honest here. This Mosque's locations is in very poor taste, and in fact, it has greatly affected the way I see Muslims that support it. I see this Mosque as a victory Mosque. A victory over the majority Christian West and America. I think it is to show that America is weak, and to celebrate the great jihad in the name of Allah. The terrorist who flew the planes into the building thought they were on a great jihad for Allah, and I think it shows great distaste to put a Mosque in that location.

    After all, there are some very radical jihadist Muslims that believe that the Muslim Flag will one day fly over the White House. I hope I never live to see that day that any religious flag flies over our White House. I don't think that government run religions are good at all. Such as most Middle Eastern countries. There should never be a state run religion where there are free people. Those people are not free.

    I have no personal problem with any Muslim I have ever met. Most that I have met have been wonderful people, but I certainly look down on anyone who thinks this Mosque is a good idea in its current location. I think its offensive to America and to the people who lost friends and family members in the attack. I think it is very unwise to put it there, and I think it makes some Americans look at Muslims with less respect. Furthermore, the government should do nothing to stop or aid in the building of this mosque. They should remain completely neutral. I don't want the government involved in stopping or supporting any religion, only supporting the freedom of it.

    This is all, only my opinion. Others are entitled to their opinions on the matter as well.
     
  8. TippinTaco

    TippinTaco New Member

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    I agree with EJR. And I totally agree that the fact they fought hard and long to have the mosque built near Ground Zero was in fact a way to take a jab at americans. Any muslim person who claims different is just flat out naive. Now they want AMERICANS who agree and dont agree to pay for the mosque... Who in the @#[email protected]#$ do we need to call or write to keep this from happening? My guess it will happen anyways no matter what anyone thinks. We're losing our country to these "born politicians". Anyone who grows up and goes to school to be a politician shouldn't be one period. We need Joe the plumber and Sarah the stay at home mom to be the political figures. They need to LISTEN to us when we speak and understand when we say something we mean it. At this point we blindly vote ignorant selfish arrogant old people into office that only care about themselves and their pay check and sign off and agree with whom offer the most money and power. These same people will ask the muslim leaders of this church the famous line once spoken by JFK:

    And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.


    In cases like this: Ask not what government can do for you, but what you can do for the government.
     
  9. al-Tariqh

    al-Tariqh New Member

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    To be clear, there is nothing any government agency can do to stop them. To do so would set a precedent I am sure none of you would be comfortable with.

    I am also sure if this group wasn't part of the hated 'other,' that we in this country periodically feel a need to demonize, all orchestrated by those in government, we would be screaming about a violation of civil liberties.

    But for the fact that they can't raise the money to do it may be a sign that the expansion won't go ahead, and the community center that is already there and has been operating for years without uprorar will go on as it has been.

    But again doesn't it seem curious that the outrage is being fanned by Fox News, who's parent company's largest minority stakeholder, is also the main backer of this project. It seems as the bigger the controversy, the better the viewership, which means better advirtising revenue, meaning he makes more money.

    Can't you see you are being mainipulated?
     
  10. Puffyfish

    Puffyfish New Member

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    All to be built with UNION LABOR.

    Now the question is will the unions go along with this farse just for the money?
    [​IMG] The same unions that tore down and removed the towers. Just the thought of it sictates me to no end.
     
  11. Melissa5

    Melissa5 Active Member

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    Ah, I see now. The purpose of your post was to let us know that you support the mosque being built that close to Ground Zero and to try to demonize Fox News.
     
  12. TippinTaco

    TippinTaco New Member

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    :sly: Well it's obvious that he realizes that alot of people here seperate muslims from the rest. But maybe he needs to look at it in a different perspective. IMHO it has to do less with their religion and more with the fact that moronic muslims in the name of Allah attacked us on 9/11 and murdered thousands upon thousands of people for their religion. No matter what group they were a part of, where they came from, who they worked for, they plotted and carried out the worst attack on US soil. We till this day carry a fat lip and a black eye but we stood back up and we brought the fight.

    Now the same religion and possibly same people that will do anything in the name of Allah is trying to rub salt into the wounds that havent healed yet, just because they think they can do it and get away with it. Ten the guy in charge of the operation uses SCARE TACTICS on the media to try to get their way when he notices that theres an outcry from US citizens to not allow it to be built.

    Isn't that the way of the terrorists? Threaten henious acts of violence to get your way? To scare the general public so they give in to your demands and wants?

    The united states got to laxed. We were so comfortable in our chairs and we had a right to be honestly. Besides moronic acts carried out by americans on our soil, its a different when people come from another country, take advantage of our benefits of being an american such as :

    Our education system
    Immigrant benefits
    Way of life
    Rights
    Liberties
    Economy
    Pay scales
    Laxed internal security
    Ability to decide at the drop of the hat that you want to fly as long as you can afford the software or training

    Fact is they took advantage of our system in the USA. And we got 9/11 in return. Notice now that 9/11 occured we're doing a better job halting simple plans to cause destruction, or in some cases just plain stupidity helps.

    All muslims need to realize, here in our society, we put everyone into groups( for the good or bad). Muslims all fall under their very own group and terrorists tend to be included in that group. Love it or not if you hate the way we do things here then obviously Saudia Arabia or Iraq will allow you to have all the same rights and liberties as us. /Sarcasim
     
  13. Melissa5

    Melissa5 Active Member

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    Just saw this in a guys signature line on another gun forum and it cracked me up.

    Let them build the mosque near ground zero, but across the street, we should put a topless bar, called "You Mecca Me Hot", a gay bar called "The Turban Cowboy", and a pork-rib restaurant called "Iraq o' Ribs".
     
  14. al-Tariqh

    al-Tariqh New Member

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    Our education system (you mean where we teach to the lowest common denominator, put kids out while still illiterate, and those that can escape it go to private schools?)
    Immigrant benefits (Where we have a quota system originally designed to keep nom-western europeans out, and now we allow anyone in without regard to their benefit to society, and we reward those that cheat the system?)
    Way of life (Where we view ourselves as culturally superior, and look to impose that way of life on people around the world at taxpayer expense?)
    Rights (Where we teach people that they have entitlements, but no responsibilities, and that those with jobs can pay for those who choose not to work?)
    Liberties (You mean the ones constantly under threat regardless of political party in power?)
    Economy (You mean the one where union demands have driven the wage scale to the point that small businesses to look overseas so as to stay competitive, because the tax structure is designed to reward those who choose not to work at all?)
    Pay scales (see above)
    Laxed internal security (You mean like the TSA on domestic flights?)
    Ability to decide at the drop of the hat that you want to fly as long as you can afford the software or training ( as long as you are willing to have naked pictures of yourself taken, get molested by someone of the same sex, or pay a fine of $11,000 every time you want to fly)


    So by that logic all Southerners should be included with those who committed terrorist acts on their black population in the 1960s. And by that logic Glenn Beck should get the hell out of the country for being so critical of it, because you gotta 'love it or leave it' He seems more critical of the country than I am. So perhaps we should run him off too. Besides he's not even a real Christian. He's one of them, Mormons. Isn't that one of them cults that we need to take out like in Waco or Ruby Ridge. For not believing the way real Americans believe.

    So I take it I have to believe that whatever the government does it okay, because that's patriotic. And I have to believe in Jesus Christ, because freedom of religion doesn't count if you don't believe in a socially approved religion?

    I guess I am talking to a crowd that is comfortable with their marionette strings. Because that's what makes a patriotic American, right?
     
  15. Melissa5

    Melissa5 Active Member

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    Mormons believe that Jesus was the son of God, died on the cross for their sins, and is their savior...unlike Muslims. But, you have every right to be part of the religion of peace and revere a pedophile if you want to.

    Furthermore, google the word "patriot" because you are confused about what it means.
     
  16. Puffyfish

    Puffyfish New Member

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    [​IMG] I can imagine some of the names of the drink and food 'specials'.
     
  17. al-Tariqh

    al-Tariqh New Member

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    Yet more rantings from one of the uneducated:
    What Do Mormons Believe: The Nature of Jesus Christ
    As for your attempts to offend, it simply reveals that the extent of your education is limited to anti-Muslim website so as to justify your bigotry. But is it most likely based on various sources that she was around the age of 12 when married, and 15 when the marriage was consummated.

    According to a hadith in Bukhari and Muslim, Aisha is said to have joined Muhammad on the raid that culminated in the Battle of Badr, in 624 CE. However, because no one below the age of fifteen was allowed to accompany raiding parties, Aisha should have been at least fifteen in 624 CE and thus at least thirteen when she was married following the Hijra in 622 CE.

    Ibn Hisham’s version of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, records Aisha as having converted to Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab, during the first few years of Islam around 610 CE. In order to accept Islam she must have been walking and talking, hence at least three years of age, which would make her at least fifteen in 622 CE.

    Tabari reports that Abu Bakr wished to spare Aisha the discomforts of a journey to Ethiopia soon after 615 CE, and tried to bring forward her marriage to Mut`am’s son. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam, but if Aisha was already of marriageable age in 615 CE, she must have been older than nine in 622 CE.

    Tabari also reports that Abu Bakr’s four children were all born during the Jahiliyyah (Pre-Islam Period), which has ended in 610 CE, making Aisha at least twelve in 622 CE.

    According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was thirty-five years old, meaning Aisha was born when he was forty years old, and thus twelve when Muhammad married at fifty-two.

    According to the generally accepted tradition, Aisha was born about eight years before Hijrah (Migration to Medina). However, according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab al-Tafseer) Aisha is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur’an , was revealed, “I was a young girlâ€. The 54th Surah of the Qur’an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Aisha had not only been born before the revelation of the referred Surah, but was actually a young girl, not even only an infant at that time. So if this age is assumed to be 7 to 14 years, then her age at the time of marriage would be 14 to 21.

    According to almost all the historians, Asma the elder sister of Aisha, was ten years older than Aisha. It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as in Ibn Kathir's Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma died in the 73rd year after migration of Muhammad when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in the 73rd year after Migration to Medina, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of migration. If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Aisha should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, if Aisha got married in year 1 AH or 2 AH (after Migration to Medina), she must have been between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

    According to many Ahadith in Bukhari, it is believed Aisha participated in the both of Badr and Uhud battles. Furthermore, in Bukhari's Kitabu’l-Maghazi, Ibn `Umar states: "The Prophet did not permit me to participate in Uhud battle, as at that time, I was 14 years old. But on the day of Khandaq battle, when I was 15 years old, the Prophet permitted my participation". So, since it was not allowed for Muslims younger than 15 years old to participate in Uhud battle, Aisha, who participated in Uhud, must have been at least 15 years old in those battles; thus her age was at least 13 to 14 at the time of her marriage.



    You could look up each of these yourself, but I doubt you have the interest, mostly because it doesn't fit into your limited world view. Please just get an education, then come back when you have something coherent to say.
     
  18. Melissa5

    Melissa5 Active Member

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    http://www.mormon.org/faq/belief-in-jesus-christ/
    Jesus Christ is the literal Son of God. His birth, life, death, and resurrection fulfilled the many prophecies contained in the scriptures concerning the coming of a Savior. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge (see Isaiah 9:6, 53:3-7; Psalms 22:16-18).

    Come on, al-tariqh. An old man fooling around with an underage girl be she 9 or 15...that's a pedophile. We don't condone that crap in the US.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
    Aisha was initially betrothed to Jubayr ibn Mut'im, a Muslim whose father, though pagan, was friendly to the Muslims. When Khawlah bint Hakim suggested that Muhammad marry Aisha after the death of Muhammad's first wife (Khadijah bint Khuwaylid), the previous agreement regarding marriage of Aisha with ibn Mut'im was put aside by common consent.[1] British historian William Montgomery Watt suggests that Muhammad hoped to strengthen his ties with Abu Bakr;[1] the strengthening of ties commonly served as a basis for marriage in Arabian culture.[2]

    According to the traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was engaged to Muhammad and nine when the marriage took place.[1][3][4] American historian Denise Spellberg states that "these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity."[3] This issue of her virginity was of great importance to supporters of the Abbasid Caliphate. Abbasid supporters considered that as Muhammad's only virgin wife, Aisha was divinely intended for him, and therefore the most credible regarding the debate over the succession to Muhammad.[3]

    Aisha stayed in her parents' home for several years until she joined Muhammad and the marriage was consummated.[1][3][4][5][6][7] Most of the sources indicate that she was nine years old at the time, with the single exception of al-Tabari, who records that she was ten.[3] The marriage was delayed until after the Hijra, or migration to Medina, in 622; Aisha and her older sister Asma bint Abi Bakr only moved to Medina after Muhammad had already migrated there. After this, the wedding was celebrated very simply. The sources do not offer much more information about Aisha's childhood years, but mention that after the wedding, she continued to play with her toys, and that Muhammad entered into the spirit of these games.[8]

    THAT IS SICK!
     
  19. cherok

    cherok New Member

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    hi pot! how has kettle been? :screwy:
     
  20. al-Tariqh

    al-Tariqh New Member

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    So you quote wikipedia as your source?

    That says it all about you. Ten minutes is not long enough to get an education. And it shows.