Georgiapacking.org banner

61 - 74 of 74 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,624 Posts
Budder, you are so far off the mark in understanding anything anyone is saying that it is painful to watch you in action.

1. You never called my post stupid, just that it didn't "make the cut." But you can call it stupid if that sort of childishness makes you feel better. ;)

2. I think you're confusing the general "war" the US is fighting to what's going on in Iraq:
Okay, I agree with you there, though you should be wary that the media will overreport crimes by Muslims when we are at war with a predominantly Muslim nation. I think you have something to say about having your head stuck in the sand coming, so I won't mention it here.
3. Could it be that you just don't understand the goal of Muslim extremists? You do realize that they intend to either convert infidels or kill them, don't you? Are you familiar with that part of the Koran, which is being taken so literally by MUSLIM extremists? Do you even remember the Taliban? Have you seen noticed that the same thing is happening in Iran?
Like it or not, there is a wargoing on and the choice is simple stand up and win, convert, or die.

[quote:eek:ed6odnh]Yes, there is a war going on. Are we all supposed to take up arms now? Is that what you mean? And convert? We all need to become your version of Christian because there's a war going on? Or we all need to subscribe to your particular views on this war? Or we need to go metric because the English system is retarded and has weird conversions? Or do none of the above and only be worthy of death? Well, shit.
[/quote:eek:ed6odnh]

4. I can't speak for the guy, but when I read that with respect to you I figured he meant that you do not perceive a threat. That's ok, though. You're just caught up in high ideals, smugness, and immaturity.
and hope that better men than you stand up to the threat.
[quote:eek:ed6odnh]
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. I am a bad person because I think people should be treated fairly? I'm a bad person because I don't categorize all citizens of a country that I know nothing about other than what's spoon-fed to me by the media just because a minority of them are religious nutjobs? I'm a bad person because I'm not shooting people in Iraq? Is the threat even Iraq? Or is it here, with all the dangerous terrorists? I really don't know how you want me to take this statement other than as a generic moral outrage without anything backing it.
[/quote:eek:ed6odnh]

Some Muslims use their religion of peace to justify murder, terrorism, torture, and rape. Of course it would be stupid to lump all Muslims into the "terrorist" bucket. I don't think anyone here is doing that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,306 Posts
AV8R said:
I think you're confusing the general "war" the US is fighting to what's going on in Iraq.
What humors me is that many conservatives who condemn the media on a daily basis are now starting to believe the hype regarding the war in Iraq. If the media tells me we're losing, I question it.

Any GCO member should know this first hand based on the slew of misinformation regarding our organization from the local media. I want to hear from those over there fighting the battle. Most of the ones I have personally spoken to don't want to come home until the job is done, period.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
16,485 Posts
AV8R said:
Budder, you are so far off the mark in understanding anything anyone is saying that it is painful to watch you in action.

1. You never called my post stupid, just that it didn't "make the cut." But you can call it stupid if that sort of childishness makes you feel better. ;)
And your point is what? You're clearly not getting it too. MP asked me to find posts that ascribed the actions of some Muslims to that of all Muslims. Yours did not, barely. There was no insult. If anything, I was commending you for CYA, even though I don't agree with you.

2. I think you're confusing the general "war" the US is fighting to what's going on in Iraq:
What do you mean by that? Maybe I am. Will you explain the difference to me so that we can be on the same page?

3. Could it be that you just don't understand the goal of Muslim extremists? You do realize that they intend to either convert infidels or kill them, don't you? Are you familiar with that part of the Koran, which is being taken so literally by MUSLIM extremists? Do you even remember the Taliban? Have you seen noticed that the same thing is happening in Iran?
I understand their goals and what you are talking about. I never said anything to the contrary.

4. I can't speak for the guy, but when I read that with respect to you I figured he meant that you do not perceive a threat. That's ok, though. You're just caught up in high ideals, smugness, and immaturity.
I do perceive a threat. But that is not the only threat. It is also important not to confuse our war with Iraq/al-Queda/the Taliban/terrorism with our differences in religion. This is the key point I am trying to make and I do not see any evidence that "your side" recognizes this. I believe all the posts in this and the last religion thread conveniently sidestep this issue. Okay, so I like my ideals? What's wrong with that? Is there something not right about wanting to have a peaceful world instead of waging a religious war? How am I being smug? By pointing out the numerous failures to argue against me? I think that's that's justified. And sure, I'm immature. That's highly relevant. Way to round out the ad hominem.

Some Muslims use their religion of peace to justify murder, terrorism, torture, and rape. Of course it would be stupid to lump all Muslims into the "terrorist" bucket. I don't think anyone here is doing that.
Show me otherwise. I keep giving evidence to my arguments. Why can't the multitude against me do likewise?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,313 Posts
Mobster989 said:
There have always been people who've claimed to be members of a religion and then commited acts that would logically disqualify them from being a member. It's not just with religion but with other things too. The great thing about this day and time is that we aren't living in a theocracy like much of the middle east, so we can question our religious leaders and hold them more accountable.

Oh by the way, Catholics are not Christian. Jesus made it clear that he was the only way to the father. He preached against the church/temple hierarchy. Yet Catholics still think you need to confess to a priest and that the pope is somehow still in charge.

Anyways, it doesn't matter. I'm not going to stand in front of God for anyone else's sins and neither will anyone stand before him for mine.
ah dude, that's like really harsh, man... I wouldn't even go as far to say that, an I'm Lutheran for pete's sake... you know, if wsweeks2 was all like in my face saying that me and my homies in the Reformationist posse weren't down with the Big G, I'd just have to step off and say 'word alone, faith alone, bro -- you gotta talk to the hand on this one'...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,624 Posts
budder said:
Some Muslims use their religion of peace to justify murder, terrorism, torture, and rape. Of course it would be stupid to lump all Muslims into the "terrorist" bucket. I don't think anyone here is doing that.
Show me otherwise. I keep giving evidence to my arguments. Why can't the multitude against me do likewise?
That's just it, Budder... You don't have an argument. You only have criticisms and antics. I don't think your mere disagreement with the multitude constitutes an actual argument.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
16,485 Posts
AV8R said:
budder said:
Some Muslims use their religion of peace to justify murder, terrorism, torture, and rape. Of course it would be stupid to lump all Muslims into the "terrorist" bucket. I don't think anyone here is doing that.
Show me otherwise. I keep giving evidence to my arguments. Why can't the multitude against me do likewise?
That's just it, Budder... You don't have an argument. You only have criticisms and antics. I don't think your mere disagreement with the multitude constitutes an actual argument.
Criticisms and antics? Yes, I am criticizing actions and I am explaining why I criticize them. That's an argument. You're sidestepping the actual posting of a counterargument again. If this is the game you want to play, I'll gladly step out, since we can't have a debate where one side presents arguments and the other side criticizes me. There's an antic for you. Flame away, since I've yet to see any solid points from you, just this little bit of rambling: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 2129#82129
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
233 Posts
budder said:
adcurt, help me out here. What should first address:

1) The the fact that you're going on a complete tangent: we're not talking about the Crusades. The initial mention of it was to put forward a mocking counterargument.
a) The misrepresentation of said tangential counterargument
2) Why some of the Christians seem to go bananas whenever religion comes up. It's like Glock lust, and not in a good way.
3) The (self-acknowledged) second tangent
4) The apology* for the Crusades
5) The complaint about an irrelevant tangent that the non-me side keeps bringing back to try and gain some credibility
6) The appeal to final consequences
7) The ad hom
8) The funny closing line

*formal apology
Budder; A little unnecessary. I was chiming in to an earllier post... but what would drive you to be a dick to people you've never met, but could come into contact with in the future? Try to make friends. :)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,624 Posts
:lol:

What's there to sidestep? I originally gave my opinion, in which no way cast all Muslims as terrorists (which seems to be your beef). I then pointed out that it was clear you didn't even understand what Fallison was saying. It is hard for you to argue what you can't comprehend. Then came more antics from you:

I'll gladly step out, since we can't have a debate where one side presents arguments and the other side criticizes me. There's an antic for you. Flame away, since I've yet to see any solid points from you, just this little bit of rambling: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 2129#82129
There's no real shame in picking up your toys and going home, I guess. :roll: It's not like your commenting negatively about Christians is a valid argument against what people have said about Muslims. That's an antic (distraction), usually employed by children. e.g. When little Johnny was asked why he tripped little Suzie on the playground he said, "But little Billy punches people all the time!"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
895 Posts
Discussion Starter #69
Budder,
I apologize for the tone I took in my response. I got snippy when I thought you were attacking me personally with the stupid comment.
But I stand by the comment that I made that MP decided to move to a new thread so all context was lost. It is simply a fact that as I said in my last post, There has been enough atrocities committed in the by Muslims (individuals - not all believers) name of Allah in recent years that I see no way that a thinking person can be suprised by any new atrocity that a Muslim (individual - not all believers) commits.
I have watched the Pearl video, seen pictures from Beslan, seen pictures of little girls beheaded because their families weren't Muslim, saw the Palestinians and the Arabs cheering and celebrating in the streets on 9-11, and hundreds of other examples of brutality and depravity committed by evil people in the name of their god.
I will stand up and die fighting for the right of any individual to worship according to the dictates of their conscience no matter how much I disagree with what they believe. But I draw the line at those who preach that all must worship as they do or be killed or enslaved (this includes :censored: -face Fred, who you want to lump in with all Christians) and I will not ignore the elephant in the room that is a significant portion of Muslims worldwide that support thesse atrocities and more in an unholy desire for world domination just to avoid hurting someones' feelings.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
16,485 Posts
adcurt said:
Budder; A little unnecessary. I was chiming in to an earllier post... but what would drive you to be a dick to people you've never met, but could come into contact with in the future? Try to make friends. :)
Perhaps your post would make a little more sense in the context of another post, but since I wasn't given that other post, there was no reason for me to reference it when reading yours. I think that is a reasonable misunderstanding. Taken out of context, as I had read your post, it is full of flaws. I have my doubts as to whether those are mitigated or go away completely in context, so feel free to provide some support for your claims. I don't really care what you think of me, only that both sides get represented in this argument. I know none of you will believe me, but if I were on a Islam-centric board, I would be defending Christianity. I'm not pro- either religion, just pro-logical arguments.
AV8R said:
:lol:

What's there to sidestep? I originally gave my opinion, in which no way cast all Muslims as terrorists (which seems to be your beef).
Yes, that is my beef. And "So I ask, since you say that the Bible is just as bad as the Koran... Why is it that Muslim people always seem to be in the news these days because of their hateful and subhuman actions? After all, its the people, right? They just happen to be Muslim people. I don't see many Christians beheading dissidents in the streets, burning kids alive, stoning teenage girls to death, or launching Qassam rockets toward schools and daycare centers. " casts Muslims as hateful beheaders, child burners, and school attackers. You are also conveniently forgetting my point that the media will focus on Muslim atrocities in Iraq over any committed by us or third parties. Now, I'm not saying that either of those latter groups are causing more than the former; I strongly believe that the extremists are the ones causing the most suffering and the most inhumane suffering at that. The stories* I have heard from my friends in Iraq and Afghanistan definitely support that belief. But I will reiterate: Muslims are not inherently evil extremists, just as Christians are not Westboro Baptist congregates.

*yes, these are biased too, and I take them with an appropriate dose of skepticism.

There's no real shame in picking up your toys and going home, I guess. :roll: It's not like your commenting negatively about Christians is a valid argument against what people have said about Muslims. That's an antic (distraction), usually employed by children. e.g. When little Johnny was asked why he tripped little Suzie on the playground he said, "But little Billy punches people all the time!"
I'm not commenting negatively about Christians. Read over all of my posts again. I am merely pointing out that you are applying a double standard and stating my distaste for that. To use your example, Suzie tripped Johnny earlier, the reverse even earlier, and so on and so on. I think an antic is more appropriately your use of a cute playground example that does not accurately model our argument. It's not even a strawman, but a complete misrepresentation of the other side.

fallison, I agree completely with everything in your latest post. Look, adcurt, I'm making friends already! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
233 Posts
budder said:
adcurt said:
Budder; A little unnecessary. I was chiming in to an earllier post... but what would drive you to be a dick to people you've never met, but could come into contact with in the future? Try to make friends. :)
Perhaps your post would make a little more sense in the context of another post, but since I wasn't given that other post, there was no reason for me to reference it when reading yours. I think that is a reasonable misunderstanding. Taken out of context, as I had read your post, it is full of flaws. I have my doubts as to whether those are mitigated or go away completely in context, so feel free to provide some support for your claims. I don't really care what you think of me, only that both sides get represented in this argument. I know none of you will believe me, but if I were on a Islam-centric board, I would be defending Christianity. I'm not pro- either religion, just pro-logical arguments.
Are you inferring that I made up some history for kicks? That's a pathetic dig when you can just look it up. It isn't secret information.

So, here's some more info on the invasions that led up to the Crusades. You're arguing with me has now made it a relevant topic to the thread. You can do your own fact checking. I don't owe you anything and I have no reason to make stuff up.

---
In 635 AD, that is three years after Mohammed’s death, that the armies of the Crescent Moon invaded Christian Syria and Christian Palestine. It was in 638 that they took Jerusalem and the Holy Sepulchre. It was in 640 that after conquering Persia and Armenia and Mesopotamia, present-day Iraq, they invaded Christian Eqypt and overran Christian Maghreb. That is, the present Tunisia and Algeria and Morocco. It was in 668 that for the first time they attacked Constantinople and laid a siege that would last five years. It was in 711 that after crossing the Strait of Gibraltar that they landed in the most Catholic Iberian Peninsula, took possession of Portugal and Spain where despite the Pelayos and the Cid Campeadors and the other warriors engaged in the Reconquest they remained for no less than eight centuries. (And whoever believes in the myth of "peaceful coexistence that marked the relationships between the conquered and the conquerors" should reread the stories of the burned convents and monasteries, of the profaned churches, of the raped nuns, of the Christian or Jewish women abducted to be locked away in their harems. He should ponder on the crucifixions of Cordoba, the hangings of Granada, the beheadings of Toledo and Barcelona, of Seville and Zamora. (The beheadings of Seville, ordered by Mutamid: the King who used those severed heads, heads of Jews and Christians, to adorn his palace. The beheadings of Zamora, ordered by Almanzor: the vizier who was called the patron-of-the-philosophers, the greatest leader Islamic Spain ever produced...). Invoking the name of Jesus meant instant execution. Crucifixion, of course, or decapitation or hanging or impalement. Ringing a bell, the same. Wearing green, the color exclusive to Islam, also. And when a Muslim passed by, every Jew and Christian was obliged to step aside. To bow. And mind to the Jew or the Christian who dared react to the insults of a Muslim. As for the much-flaunted detail that the infidel-dogs were not obliged to convert to Islam, not even encouraged to do so. Do you know why they were not? Because those who converted to Islam did not pay taxes. Those who refused, on the contrary, did.)

From Spain, in 721 AD, they passed into the no less Catholic France. Led by Abd al-Rahman, the Governor of Andalusia, they crossed the Pyrenees and took Narbonne. There they massacred the entire male population, enslaved all the women and children, then proceeded towards Carcassonne. From Carcassonne they went to Nimes where they slaughtered nuns and friars. From Nimes they went to Lyons and Dijon where they pillaged every single church… And do you know how long their advance in France lasted? Eleven years. In waves. In 731 a wave of three hundred and eighty thousand infantry and sixteen thousand calvalry reached Bordeaux which surrendered at once. Then from Bordeaux it moved to Poitiers, from Poitiers it moved to Tours and, if in 732 Charles Martel had not won the battle of Poitiers-Tours, today the French too would dance the flamenco. In 827 they landed in Sicily, another target of their voraciousness. Massacring, beheading, impaling, crucifying as usual, they conquered Syracuse and Taormina then Messina and Palermo, and in three-quarters of a century (which was what it took to break the proud resistance of the Sicilians) they Islamized the island. They stayed for over two centuries, in Sicily: until they were cleared out by the Normans. But in 836 they landed at Brindisi. In 840, at Bari. And they Islamized Puglia too. In 841 they landed at Ancona. Then from the Adriatic they moved back to the Tyrrhenian Sea and in the summer of 846 landed at Ostia. They sacked it, burned it, and moving upriver from the mouth of the Tiber they reached Rome. They laid siege to it and one night they burst in. They plundered the basilicas of St. Peter and St. Paul, sacked both, and to get rid of them Pope Sergius II had to stipulate an annual tribute of twenty-five thousand pieces of silver. To prevent further attacks, his successor Leo IV had to erect the Leonine Walls.

Having left Rome, though, they descended on Campania. They stayed there for seventy years destroying Montecassino and tormenting Salerno. A city where, at one time, they amused themselves by sacrificing a nun’s virginity every night. Do you know where? On the cathedral’s altar. In 898 they landed in Provence. To be precise, in present-day Saint-Tropez. They settled there, and in 911 crossed the Alps to enter Piedmont. They occupied Turin and Casale, set fire to all of the churches and libraries, killed thousands of Christians, then went to Switzerland. Here they reached the Graubunden valley and the lake of Geneva. Then, put off by the snow, did an about-turn and returned to the warm climate of Provence. In 940 they occupied Toulon where they settled.

Today it’s fashionable to beat our breasts over the Crusades. To blame the West for the Crusades. To see the Crusades as an injustice committed to the detriment of the poor-innocent-Muslims. But before being a series of expeditions to regain possession of the Holy Sepulchre that is of Jerusalem, the Crusades were the response to four centuries of invasion and occupations.

Flame on, Buddy. And don't use such big word in your posts. You don't wear them well.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
68,147 Posts
budder said:
Malum Prohibitum said:
budder said:
Then why are the actions of extremists who claim to be Muslim taken as the views and actions of all Muslims!
budder, quote three examples of this from this web site or knock it off. Bickering for the sake of bickering gets a little old.

If there is a problem with people taking the views of extremists and claiming it is the "views and actions of all Muslims" (like, perhaps, tace), then it will be dealt with. You can help us get started by posting such examples in your next post on this thread.
Okay, I don't see why I have to prove myself to you, since you're a clearly biased judge, but I'll do it for funsies. I love a challenge anyway, but this is too easy. I'll limit myself to this thread of posts you chose, just to make it somewhat sporting.

1.
Post #1, by fallison: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 1794#81794

This doesn't really apply, so I'm not counting it, but it's just plain stupid: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 1909#81909

2.
Your very own post!
http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 2004#82004

3.
Here's a solid one from AV8R, who didn't quite make the cut his first try:
http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 2129#82129

There are your three. I would also like to submit wsweek's most recent post: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 2500#82500 because it's damn funny.
Budder, thanks for trying, but not a single one of your examples backs up what you are saying.

Then why are the actions of extremists who claim to be Muslim taken as the views and actions of all Muslims!
That is what you said.

A post that happens to mention the word "muslim" fails to qualify as an All S Are P statement.

I may be a "biased" judge, but I know how to read English, and none of the posts you quote attribute violent acts to "the views and actions of all Muslims."
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
16,485 Posts
adcurt, you said you were responding to a previous post. I said that I did not see a quoted post and couldn't tell what previous post you were referencing/responding to. I never claimed that you were making up history. Thank you for the irrelevant lecture regardless.

MP, just saying something doesn't make it true. The posts I picked out show the anti-Islamic (NOT anti-terrorism/anti-al-Qaeda) sentiments on this board in a way that generalizes the actions of some Muslims to that of all. If you can't see that, you're being entirely disingenuous, since I have too much respect for your intelligence to believe that you don't see my point.
 
61 - 74 of 74 Posts
Top