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budder said:
Then why are the actions of extremists who claim to be Muslim taken as the views and actions of all Muslims! The parallel is not hard to see if you'll step back and stop taking everything personally.
Um...aren't you doing the same thing by lumping all Christians together?
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
budder said:
Then why are the actions of extremists who claim to be Muslim taken as the views and actions of all Muslims!
budder, quote three examples of this from this web site or knock it off. Bickering for the sake of bickering gets a little old.

If there is a problem with people taking the views of extremists and claiming it is the "views and actions of all Muslims" (like, perhaps, tace), then it will be dealt with. You can help us get started by posting such examples in your next post on this thread.
Okay, I don't see why I have to prove myself to you, since you're a clearly biased judge, but I'll do it for funsies. I love a challenge anyway, but this is too easy. I'll limit myself to this thread of posts you chose, just to make it somewhat sporting.

1.
Post #1, by fallison: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 1794#81794

This doesn't really apply, so I'm not counting it, but it's just plain stupid: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 1909#81909

2.
Your very own post!
http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 2004#82004

3.
Here's a solid one from AV8R, who didn't quite make the cut his first try:
http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 2129#82129

There are your three. I would also like to submit wsweek's most recent post: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 2500#82500 because it's damn funny.
 

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AeroShooter said:
The burden for those acts, as well as all the actions we've been discussing in this thread, lie on those who committed them.
I hear a good amount of "belonging" to religions here, and bringing up history and making arguments on current events. The above quote says it best, period. If you didn’t do it, then stop drawing a relation to it OR if it was something done to another, stop acting as if it was done to you or as if you had a part in it. I absolutely can’t stand it when an individual draws connections to something that is so far off it shouldn’t have even of come up. It’s like a football fan saying his team needs to draft so and so, or that the coach doesn’t know what he’s doing, and that individual NEVER played football. EX #2 An Air Force admin troop being a hero by association when all he does is play video games all day, or go golfing on tax payers’ money.

All in all, be responsible for your own actions, I will all meet our maker someday and answer for what I did. Not for what the next guy did...
:rant:
 

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There have always been people who've claimed to be members of a religion and then commited acts that would logically disqualify them from being a member. It's not just with religion but with other things too. The great thing about this day and time is that we aren't living in a theocracy like much of the middle east, so we can question our religious leaders and hold them more accountable.

Oh by the way, Catholics are not Christian. Jesus made it clear that he was the only way to the father. He preached against the church/temple hierarchy. Yet Catholics still think you need to confess to a priest and that the pope is somehow still in charge.

Anyways, it doesn't matter. I'm not going to stand in front of God for anyone else's sins and neither will anyone stand before him for mine.
 

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tace said:
considering the amount of blood that has been shed in the name of God and/or oil.
Oil, gold, tea, sugar, rum, diamonds, etc. Let's not narrow this down to petroleum and implicate industrial society (read: evil capitalists) as the source of the problem.

Back to your regularly scheduled bickering! :whistle:
 

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Mobster989 said:
Oh by the way, Catholics are not Christian. Jesus made it clear that he was the only way to the father. He preached against the church/temple hierarchy. Yet Catholics still think you need to confess to a priest and that the pope is somehow still in charge.
I was going to argue this, but it's way off topic. And I don't really care.
 

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Mobster989 said:
Oh by the way, Catholics are not Christian.
Wow, I guess I'm not a Christian anymore. Thanks for clearing that up for me Mobster.

Mobster989 said:
Yet Catholics still think you need to confess to a priest and that the pope is somehow still in charge.
This statement alone shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm not going to get into a religious debate, but it burns me up when people throw around stuff like this out of sheer ignorance.
 

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wsweeks2 said:
Mobster989 said:
Oh by the way, Catholics are not Christian.
Wow, I guess I'm not a Christian anymore. Thanks for clearing that up for me Mobster.

Mobster989 said:
Yet Catholics still think you need to confess to a priest and that the pope is somehow still in charge.
This statement alone shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm not going to get into a religious debate, but it burns me up when people throw around stuff like this out of sheer ignorance.
Are either of you, by any chance, from North Ireland?
 

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My ancestry is from County Offaly, almost right smack in the middle.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
budder said:
Malum Prohibitum said:
budder said:
Then why are the actions of extremists who claim to be Muslim taken as the views and actions of all Muslims!
budder, quote three examples of this from this web site or knock it off. Bickering for the sake of bickering gets a little old.

If there is a problem with people taking the views of extremists and claiming it is the "views and actions of all Muslims" (like, perhaps, tace), then it will be dealt with. You can help us get started by posting such examples in your next post on this thread.
Okay, I don't see why I have to prove myself to you, since you're a clearly biased judge, but I'll do it for funsies. I love a challenge anyway, but this is too easy. I'll limit myself to this thread of posts you chose, just to make it somewhat sporting.

1.
Post #1, by fallison: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 1794#81794

This doesn't really apply, so I'm not counting it, but it's just plain stupid: http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... 1909#81909
You can call me stupid if you want. I am NOT claiming all Muslims support these kind of acts. I AM claiming that enough Muslims have committed enough atricities in recent years that to fain suprise at a story like this is disengenious at best and more likely plain idiocy. What is stupid are people that want to say the virulent strain of Islam that is so prevalent today poses no threat. So go ahead, call me stupid and stick your head back in the sand (or where ever else you like to stick it) and hope that better men than you stand up to the threat. Like it or not, there is a wargoing on and the choice is simple stand up and win, convert, or die.
 

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fallison said:
You can call me stupid if you want.
Okay. I'd just like to point out that I was calling AV8R's post stupid, but if you want to be offended by it, you're more than welcome!

I am NOT claiming all Muslims support these kind of acts.
Yes, just the Muslims "over there." I refer you back to my WBC post.

I AM claiming that enough Muslims have committed enough atricities in recent years that to fain suprise at a story like this is disengenious at best and more likely plain idiocy.
Okay, I agree with you there, though you should be wary that the media will overreport crimes by Muslims when we are at war with a predominantly Muslim nation. I think you have something to say about having your head stuck in the sand coming, so I won't mention it here.

What is stupid are people that want to say the virulent strain of Islam that is so prevalent today poses no threat.
Okay. You are more than welcome to say that now. You can also tell me that the sky is blue now. It's irrelevant.

So go ahead, call me stupid
Well, you've asked twice now and I haven't done it yet, so "You're stupid." That didn't really make me feel better, just a bit childish.

and stick your head back in the sand (or where ever else you like to stick it)
I'm not ignoring anything. You, however, are. Also, very clever with the parenthetical! I would never have thought of that!

and hope that better men than you stand up to the threat.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. I am a bad person because I think people should be treated fairly? I'm a bad person because I don't categorize all citizens of a country that I know nothing about other than what's spoon-fed to me by the media just because a minority of them are religious nutjobs? I'm a bad person because I'm not shooting people in Iraq? Is the threat even Iraq? Or is it here, with all the dangerous terrorists? I really don't know how you want me to take this statement other than as a generic moral outrage without anything backing it.

Like it or not, there is a wargoing on and the choice is simple stand up and win, convert, or die.
Yes, there is a war going on. Are we all supposed to take up arms now? Is that what you mean? And convert? We all need to become your version of Christian because there's a war going on? Or we all need to subscribe to your particular views on this war? Or we need to go metric because the English system is retarded and has weird conversions? Or do none of the above and only be worthy of death? Well, shit.
 

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It's important to remember that the Crusades were a reaction to 5 centuries of Islamic barbarism that began with Mohammed, but really got kicked off in the 300s right after his death. Ghengis Khan, for instance... the Moorish invasions. You can't pretend that World History began with the First Crusade to reclaim the middle east from Islam and ignore the hundreds of years that preceded it. Don't forget that most of the Middle East was Christian before Islam hit the scene.

Heck, since I'm talking history; remember that our very first military engagement as The United States was against the Barbary Pirates (muslims) who enslaved over 1 million Britons between 1650 and 1750 AD. A little thing called, Tippoli. The Marines still sing about it. Sorry if I mis-spelled that.

This ain't no new battle guys, but the Christians never started it. I'm tired of hearing about a series of battles that the European Christians engaged in solely as a defensive reaction to Islamic conquest of Christian territory as some sort of justification for Islamic fanaticism in our time. It shows a complete disregard (or ignorance) of history. The Crusades (all of them) were justified - without that action we wouldn't have Europe that we have today.

Humble opinion.
 

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adcurt, help me out here. What should first address:

1) The the fact that you're going on a complete tangent: we're not talking about the Crusades. The initial mention of it was to put forward a mocking counterargument.
a) The misrepresentation of said tangential counterargument
2) Why some of the Christians seem to go bananas whenever religion comes up. It's like Glock lust, and not in a good way.
3) The (self-acknowledged) second tangent
4) The apology* for the Crusades
5) The complaint about an irrelevant tangent that the non-me side keeps bringing back to try and gain some credibility
6) The appeal to final consequences
7) The ad hom
8) The funny closing line



*formal apology
 

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adcurt said:
It's important to remember that the Crusades were a reaction to 5 centuries of Islamic barbarism that began with Mohammed, but really got kicked off in the 300s right after his death. Ghengis Khan, for instance... the Moorish invasions. You can't pretend that World History began with the First Crusade to reclaim the middle east from Islam and ignore the hundreds of years that preceded it. Don't forget that most of the Middle East was Christian before Islam hit the scene.

Heck, since I'm talking history; remember that our very first military engagement as The United States was against the Barbary Pirates (muslims) who enslaved over 1 million Britons between 1650 and 1750 AD. A little thing called, Tippoli. The Marines still sing about it. Sorry if I mis-spelled that.

This ain't no new battle guys, but the Christians never started it. I'm tired of hearing about a series of battles that the European Christians engaged in solely as a defensive reaction to Islamic conquest of Christian territory as some sort of justification for Islamic fanaticism in our time. It shows a complete disregard (or ignorance) of history. The Crusades (all of them) were justified - without that action we wouldn't have Europe that we have today.

Humble opinion.
:applause:
 
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