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Man of Myth and Legend
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We often think of viruses like the flu, chickenpox, or herpes as “external” invaders, but viruses are more inherently associated with human life than we often realize. Even after recovering from an infection there will always be a piece of that virus encoded within your DNA (depending on the type of virus). Approximately 8% of the human genome is made up of endogenous retroviruses (ERVs), which are viral gene sequences that have become a permanent part of the human lineage after they infected our ancient ancestors. And these endogenous retroviruses don’t just sit silently in the genome — their expression has been implicated in diseases like autoimmune disorders and breast cancer.

But endogenous retroviruses don’t only harm our health; they can also be extremely useful for human survival. For example, they . . .
 

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Just to pitch in here:


18318


Discussed elsewhere - no supporting evidence that the spike protein is actually harmless.
 

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Is there any evidence that it is harmful, or are you just suggesting that there is no evidence one way or another? So testing and observation and data collection is not evidence? What qualifies as evidence to you? You do realize that they put these things through trials, right? The outcome (good or bad) is not evidence?
 

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Is there any evidence that it is harmful, or are you just suggesting that there is no evidence one way or another? So testing and observation and data collection is not evidence? What qualifies as evidence to you? You do realize that they put these things through trials, right? The outcome (good or bad) is not evidence?
Me?

I'm just skeptical of people who claim that this as a vaccine isn't materially different from previous therapies, and so I should stop being silly and man up. It is materially different - so different it seems that over the last few months we've seen that even a significant percentage of medical professionals have declined to "man up" and be vaccinated too.

In the US, the pharmaceutical companies that have brought these products out are indemnified against lawsuits arising from their product's use. They're not approved by the FDA, although they have been granted an Emergency Use Certificate(?). There are a lot of unanswered concerns about these therapies that aren't being answered or are contradictory. Some of the questions aren't answerable at the moment, but there's not a lot of honesty and consistency in the responses. We are seeing a lot of threats of force being proposed, and that doesn't sit too well with me either.

Now, if COVID-19 was slaying 10% of the US population indiscriminately across the demographic spectrum, I might consider rushing for a vaccination, but the overwhelming majority of fatalities are among the older folk with other comorbidities.

Hence, my assessment of the risk/reward of a vaccination FOR MYSELF is that I don't consider it a good choice. Given that we're currently being told that the vaccine has little or no impact on whether you might be an asymptomatic carrier (which makes no sense to me, but hey, I'm not a virologist) and that some of the mutations of COVID we're seeing now may not be ones that the current vaccines can mitigate against, the impact on my life (and people I interact with) of having a vaccination is low-to-zero.

I could go on at far greater length, but I spend a lot of my day wondering how society can destroy itself so thoroughly over a disease that has had about the same overall impact on the public as a bad year's influenza. In the medical profession's defense, we had no way of knowing that when COVID was spread from China, but we have no excuse for behaving the way we are doing now.

In conclusion - to address your question - in some nations, public health officials have been concerned enough to pull the vaccines from use (if only to reintroduce them later) - so at least some of those officials seem to have concerns.

Data? well, we have a problem. we still don't (and probably never will) know how many Americans have died of COVID. We probably have a good idea of how many people have died with COVID in their systems. This is as important as the distinction between how many people have died of herpes simplex and how many have died with herpes simplex in their system. In both cases, they're very different answers (and incidentally, the deliberate obfuscation of that information makes me trust the CDC and other public health organizations even less)

Evidence? I'd like to see a proper set of medical trials with (to the extent possible) a proper double-blind methodology published by a medical journal. But we're not in a place where we can expect that yet (if ever). I'm skeptical when public health organizations like (but not limited to) the CDC will not differentiate between (or demand that) the data they receive from states are normalized. Much has been made of the "excess death" statistics from time to time - for good reason - since from a public health point of view (considering the health of a nation as a whole) it's the ONLY metric of value on such a gross scale.

And regarding the "harmless piece", I consider that to be conjecture until I see otherwise. mRNA "vaccines" are literally editing the patient's DNA, and I think there's some burden of proof upon the CDC to provide something more than a blase argument from authority.

E.
 
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That seems like a very long post not to answer a very direct question.

There is plenty of evidence. You may have some critiques of it that you think are valid for one reason or another, but your absolute claim that there is "no" evidence is laughable.


It is hard to pass by your last comment, even though it has nothing to do with the question of whether there is any evidence that the spike proteins themselves are harmless. If your concern is "editing a person's DNA," then you really have no grasp of what it is that you are concerned about. I suppose, however, that so much ignorance could itself cause a high level of concern over the "unknown." It is like magic to the superstitious.
 

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A therapy that causes a change in the DNA modifies the cells of a patient is hardly "magic". It's clearly the result of the new therapy. By design.

Whether it's safe is a different question, and one I still don't see an answer to.
 

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Sigh. What therapy are you discussing that changes the DNA of a patient? That is not what mRNA does. Please check back after a semester of biology 101, which you can take at the college nearest to you. Until you do that, there is not really much point to this discussion.
 

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I made an edit probably after you replied to my comment.

Taken directly from this:



Not mRNA vaccines. Instead, they teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies.
COVID-19 mRNA vaccines give instructions for our cells to make a harmless piece of what is called the “spike protein.” The spike protein is found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19.
  1. First, COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are given in the upper arm muscle. Once the instructions (mRNA) are inside the immune cells, the cells use them to make the protein piece. After the protein piece is made, the cell breaks down the instructions and gets rid of them.
I'll not make a significant number of cut and pastes from the source document just for brevity's sake.

I understand the mechanism which is being applied to create a protein which then the body's immune system targets.
I understand that the the therapy itself and the result of that therapy is eliminated from the patient's body after the creation of the spike protein.
I understand also that the immunity which the patient's body acquires as a result of targeting the spike protein provides the immunity to COVID.

That said:
  • I'm far from convinced that the therapy will not have other longer-term side effects
  • I'm far from convinced that this therapy is of much benefit given that COVID appears to be mutating into variants for which this therapy seems to be less effective.
  • I'm far from convinced that I'm at greater risk by just catching COVID "naturally" when I'm exposed to it and developing immunity that way

And a few other concerns which aren't germane here.
 
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At times it is a challenge to remember and except that some have their own style of getting a valid point across in a manner that is akin to dragging a metal rake across concrete.
 

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I have supreme confidence in data and the resulting behavior of the CDC, NIH, FBI, DOJ...
 

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Here's a great idea: Vaccines capable of self-dissemination may overcome many of the hurdles faced by direct administration of conventional vaccines.
Tell the truth did you actually read that mess?😁
 

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I made an edit probably after you replied to my comment.

Taken directly from this:







I'll not make a significant number of cut and pastes from the source document just for brevity's sake.

I understand the mechanism which is being applied to create a protein which then the body's immune system targets.
I understand that the the therapy itself and the result of that therapy is eliminated from the patient's body after the creation of the spike protein.
I understand also that the immunity which the patient's body acquires as a result of targeting the spike protein provides the immunity to COVID.

That said:
  • I'm far from convinced that the therapy will not have other longer-term side effects
  • I'm far from convinced that this therapy is of much benefit given that COVID appears to be mutating into variants for which this therapy seems to be less effective.
  • I'm far from convinced that I'm at greater risk by just catching COVID "naturally" when I'm exposed to it and developing immunity that way

And a few other concerns which aren't germane here.
So you're concerned about the (unknown) long-term impacts of MRNA vaccines. Okay. But what are the long-term impacts of COVID to your body? I totally support everyone making their own decision, but you should weigh the risks on both sides of the equation, both short and long-term.
 

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We are seeing a lot of threats of force being proposed, and that doesn't sit too well with me either.
People like the author of this article believe that you should have to take a drug whether you want it or not, whether it can help you or not, whether you're sick or not or be denied literally everything including the essentials of life. I don't recall anything in our Constitution predicating our liberties upon something we agree or disagree with. He blames a lot of the vaccine hesitancy on Trump and Trump supporters, of course, because. He also claims the US will never reach herd immunity anymore because of the anti-vaxxers which is blatantly wrong based on the actual science of herd immunity. The scary part is that there are lots of people like him out there with these same views. And if theses views start getting any real traction supported with asinine legislation I can see a Supreme Court challenge down the line. I'm not going to turned into a leper because I disagree with your views.

Biden’s wildly successful vaccine rollout [minor point, Trump was still president when covid-19 vaccines were made available but who cares about the truth?] means that soon everyone who wants a vaccine will have one. When that happens, restaurants, movie theaters, gyms, barbers, airlines and Ubers should require proof of vaccination before providing their services.
And it shouldn’t stop there. Businesses should make vaccination a requirement for employment. A COVID outbreak can shut down a business and be financially devastating. And failure to enforce basic health and safety measures is not fair to employees who have to work in offices, factories, and stores where close contact is required. Things should get personal, too: People should require friends to be vaccinated to attend the barbeques and birthday parties they host. Friends don’t let friends spread COVID.
 
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If it were to come to forced vaccination I would suggest those with the needle in hand bring help. Lots of help. That idea will not go over well with many including those who have already chosen to participate in the current on going trials.
 
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