Conversation w/ an anti

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by Bulldawg182, Apr 26, 2007.

  1. Bulldawg182

    Bulldawg182 Active Member

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    The other night at dinner with several couples, the conversation turned to the Va Tech massacre and the fact that it appeared no one attempted to subdue the madman even considering he must have stopped to reload at least a dozen times or so.

    I couldn't help myself and offered the fact that law abiding students, teachers, employees and visitors to the university were prohibited from exercising their legal right to carry weapons to defend themselves thus encouraging only the bad guys to do so. Of course, one of the wives at the table erupted immediately stating that the "old west was gone forever" and accused me of supporting a "shootout situation" where more people would have been killed. This grew substantially worse when I told her I carried the vast majority of the time she's been in my presence and not once did I manage to start a "wild west shootout". She didn't like any of that one. Actually, my leg is still sore from my wife kicking me under the table in an attempt to stop me.

    When the "discussion" got a little bit too loud for the neighboring tables, I finally asked her how she'd feel if she and her 3 kids were shopping in Walmart when a madman like the one at Va Tech pulled weapons and started killing people. Then, as the madman approached her and her children with the intent to do the same to them, a good citizen pulled his concealed weapon and managed to put a few holes in the madmans heart just before he threatened her family. I asked her whether she'd hug him or yell at him for intervening to save her family and whether or not she'd accuse him of being a "cowboy" or a "hero".

    The long silent pause was rewarding, but too short. She stated matter of factly that "if no one had guns, there would be no madman in Walmart or anywhere else". When she asked me if I had my gun with me, I told her I wasn't legally permitted to do so since the law prohibits me from carrying any place liquor is served and that my weapon was in my car.

    The conversation stopped abruptly after I asked her and everyone else at the table to take a long good look around the several hundred people in the establishment and try to pick out the potential bad guy in the crowd. I added while glaring at her, "I certainly hope, whoever he is, that he obeys the law as well as I did, or......YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN TONIGHT!!!!
     
  2. merlock

    merlock New Member

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    Careful getting too loud...I thought that parking lots for a public gathering were considered part of the public gathering. :jail:

    Good argument, though :righton:
     

  3. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I have found this argument very easy to deconstruct.

    First, it is important that you make it clear to them that the argument of "well if no one had guns" is silly. America has some 250 Millions guns floating around. So saying that we should ban all guns is just a childish statement to make. They would never be gone, even if completely banned.

    Second, ask them if every human being has a right to self-defense.

    Does this right to self-defense apply to kids in college?

    Naturally, unless they are so far out of touch with reality that they would say no one has the right to self-defense, you have a solid argument at this point.

    Then say that if people have a right to self-defense they have a right to the most effective means of self-defense. Ergo, people should be allowed to have guns on campus to protect themselves.

    If at this point they bring up that these people are not able to handle the situation, ask them what is more morally acceptable to them...a kid being shot in the head because he had his gun training scheduled for the following week or that same kid using his firearm to protect himself and possibly others.

    This is the point in the conversation that most antis got quiet.

    Then I say: it is ok if you don't like guns, but don't take people's right to self-defense away because you dislike the tool that they use.
     
  4. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday New Member

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    The parking lots of prohibited places are off limits too. If a cop had been listening or if someone had called 911 after hearing you say that we might be having to pony up for your defense fund right now. Don't give the anti's anything to use against you. I do agree with your arguments though 1000%!
     
  5. Bulldawg182

    Bulldawg182 Active Member

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    Ok, I'm relatively new here and to the intricacies of Georgia gun laws. While I'm aware of the "broad stroke" issues of public gatherings, legal buildings, airports, establishments that serve alcohol, etc., am I now learning that I can't even lock my gun in my parked car in the parking lots of these establishments?

    HOLY S$%T. How in the world are we supposed to go anywhere then? You mean to tell me that if I want to stop and have lunch in a pizzeria that serves beer, in order to stay legal I have to drive home and drop off my weapon first? Or, park somewhere else and walk? This is getting to the point of absurdity and ridiculously prohibitive. Accordingly, it's functionally impossible to carry legally in this state. I can't just drop in to the local high school on my way home from work to watch my sons baseball game because I'd have to bring the gun home first. I can't stop to eat in 90% of the eating establishments cause they might serve beer. I can't pick up a friend at the airport because my gun is in the car. This crap is ridiculous!

    Excuse my apparent anger but sometimes I think I'd be better served to remain ignorant of the intricacies of the Georgia gun laws and just use my own judgment and take my chances. :evil: :x
     
  6. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    EVERYBODY here should be reading from the Georgia Case Law page, which you can reach by clicking on the yellow button tab above titled "Gun Laws," and then clicking on "Georgia Firearm Caselaw."

    Read, read, read.

    A lot of work went into making that available to the forum members here.

    On this issue, look at Hubbard v. State from 1993. The Synopsis is: "(1) A license is needed when carrying a firearm in a car that is owned by somebody else. (2) The parking area on the grounds of and in close proximity to a public gathering is itself a public gathering, (3) A large number of people under the age of 21 "hanging out" in the parking lot, eating and talking authorizes the jury to find that the parking lot is itself a public gathering."

    I highlighted number two because it is the most pertinent, but number 3 is pretty scary, too.

    Hubbard v. State

    Georgia Firearm Caselaw
     
  7. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday New Member

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    Welcome to Georgia! We are right behind California, Illinois, Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, Hawaii, Delaware, and Washington D.C. when it comes to gun "unfriendly" laws.

    Don't get so frustrated that you just quit. Use that frustration to email and call your local reps to politely urge them to change things. Listen to folks like ICP and MP. We are lucky to have those guys. Donate to GCO when you can. I am planning on sending a little love offering their way again soon. It won't be much but every cent counts.

    I just don't want for you to lose sight of the bigger picture which is while things do stink, GCO has done a ton in a very short time. Give those guys a few more years and I think that things will be much better.

    I will not incriminate myself on a public board and I have never nor do I advocate, :) but I am sure that there are many among us that have just left it in the car in an off limits place. Just be discreet about it and don't let anybody know.
     
  8. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    Plus, -127 prohibits carry "to or while at" a public gathering. If your gun is in the car, you carried it "to" the public gathering.
     
  9. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I disagree.


    If you park somewhere else, you carried that gun to...somewhere else. Then you went to the public gathering (sans gun naturally :roll: ).
     
  10. mzmtg

    mzmtg Active Member

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    [devil's advocate]

    If any part of your journey includes a public gathering then your posession of a gun during any part of that journey is carrying "to" the public gathering. Since the code reads "to or while at" it is possible to carry a gun to a public gathering but not at the public gathering.

    [/devil's advocate]
     
  11. ahlongslide

    ahlongslide New Member

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    I don't know the laws very well either, yet, so I just purposely forget that I'm deeply concealing every time I go out. Until GCO repeals those laws.... then I won't forget so much.

    Though, if anyone asks.... I didn't say that. I would never do anything illegal.
     
  12. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    200 yards of somewhere else?
     
  13. luke0927

    luke0927 New Member

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    Hopefully in '08 we can get this F'd up pulic gathering law off the books and clean up the rest of this diluted vaguely written laws and turn this states gun laws around.....

    But with the soccer moms and anti's im going to tell you i really see our chances on the low side...I hope im wrong and i hope we can all prove that wrong but the way things are now....its just how i feel. It makes me sick to my stomach to think of this God Awful liberal society.

    Maybe we need the islamofacist over hear in America to behead a few liberals and they can see that the society they strive for is well.....going to come back to haunt them. The problem is these people don't think normally they see the gun is the problem...not the people behind them....
     
  14. Bulldawg182

    Bulldawg182 Active Member

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    MP...thanks for this. I've been here for months and have never even noticed the case law area. As do others, I very much appreciate everyone's effort here at GPO to educate the membership and instigate changes in the gun laws here in Ga.

    I've joined GeorgiaCarry.org and have made a small contribution and intend to continue to do so when able. I'm looking forward to seeing even more progress in the future, but in the meantime I'm going to make it a point to learn as much as I can from this site and others.
     
  15. Taler

    Taler New Member

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    MP or anyone, a quick question regarding Public Gathering.

    There's a small strip mall, pizza joint in the middle (on sale beer) and a sewing machine shop at the end, less than 200 yards away. Shared parking lot.

    If I take my wife's Singer in for repair, while carrying, have I violated the PG law?
     
  16. NetAdminWithGun

    NetAdminWithGun New Member

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    No one tells me where and when I can defend my self. Marta, Longhorn, mcdonalds. The only difference to me is open or concealed.
     
  17. Dan H

    Dan H New Member

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    Im moving to Arizona... :shakehead:
     
  18. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Romans 1:16

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    Yeah that will do it. Lets bring the guillitine back. :shock:
     
  19. merlock

    merlock New Member

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    :ianal:
    If this joint is in a mall (not stand-alone like a pizza hut or whatever), then I think you are ok, as long as you don't go into the pizza joint.

    For me, I would conceal very deeply while there...I have no desire to be the test case. :handcuffs: :jail:
     
  20. ICP_Juggalo

    ICP_Juggalo Professional Troll

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    I hate to say it, but in my :ianal: opinion, you would be in violation because of the court's opinion in Bice v. State. Bice v. State is the main opinion relied upon by the court in the Farmer case that Malum posted above.

    From Bice v. State:

    This statute (Code § 26-5102[16-11-127]) is very similar to Code § 58-603 by which it is made unlawful to carry any liquor or intoxicating drink to a church or other place where people may have assemblies for divine worship. In Bice v. State, 109 Ga. 117, 34 S.E. 202 it appeared that the defendant carried a bottle of whiskey to a church, where people were assembled for worship, in his buggy and the buggy was left standing from 100 to 200 yards from the church. His conviction was affirmed, and in doing so the court observed that 'a fair and even strict construction requires us to hold that, when it forbids carrying intoxicating liquor to a church, it means also to forbid its introduction to a place in such immediate proximity to the church building as to make it readily accessible to those who may desire to use it.'