[Malum Prohibitum]

While researching for an upcoming ski trip, I discovered that Colorado's laws are quite friendly. Basically, one cannot carry into a shool or public building if the public building has metal detectors and a place to store the firearm. That's it.

One also cannot carry into the General Assembly building unless he has a license to carry. Car carry concealed is allowed with or without a permit. Local governments can ban open carry in their buildings. That's it. Since I don't plan to be anywhere near schools or government buildings, I think the law is "Carry where you want while visiting" for me . . .

The really interesting thing was how few statutes they have compared to Georgia's patchwork quilt of laws and the very simple language Colorado uses. It is structured like this: No place is off limits except as hereinafter listed. Then there is almost nothing listed (just the two places - and even then the government buildings aren't really off limits, you just have to check your gun - still carry to and from).

It was a rather refreshing read after looking at Georgia's convoluted mess of laws. It also leaves very little up to ambiguity or interpretation.

 

[clintb]

Maybe that should be a model for our campaign.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Well, except that some of the few places off limits I would not wish to be here. The simplicity sure is tempting.

I don't really want local governments to deny me my carry privileges (if it was still a right I wouldn't have to have a license) just by having a lock box available. I would leave that to a few places like jails and courtrooms.

Colorado's law would be light years ahead of Georgia's, though, even as it stands. I won't be worried on vacation about whether I am legal at any given time.

 

[b8fish]

So do we have any way of getting stats on how many gun crimes are committed in Colorado by CCW holders in schools, bars, restuarants, public transport, places of public gathering, etc?

Or, how many lawful uses of guns by CCW holders in such places to prevent or respond to crimes?

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Hmmm . . . I'll have to check into it. Anybody know?

I'll bet it's lots and lots. Bloodbath in the streets and all that.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Interesting that this group is upset that Colorado still has two places off limits.

I wish we could complain like this . . .

http://www.rmgo.org/CCWsummary.html

 

[Gunstar1]

One day...


On statistics:
Media outlets don't bother to report correctly, forgetting to say if the hero had a permit and calling the criminal the victim.

The best you could hope for would be a detailed list of justified self-defense cases. The state may or may not keep a detailed list.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Some states (Texas, Florida?) keep statewide statistics on all arrests of license holders. I could not find this for Colorado, but I have not given up. Anybody else looking?

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Colorado Law Modified for Georgia, with an Oklahoma Twist:

How is this for a bill?

Repeal 16-11-127 - 128 (and some others) and insert:

(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.

(b) A peace officer may temporarily disarm a permittee, incident to a lawful stop of the permittee. the peace officer shall return the handgun to the permittee prior to discharging the permittee from the scene.

(2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

(5) nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

(6) the provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 16-11-129.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I left out the public k-12 restriction in the Colorado statute.

Hmmm . . . (1)(b) is Colorado law, I meant for it to be the Oklahoma provision . . .

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

How's this?

Repeal 16-11-127 - 128 (and some others) and insert:

(1) (a) A firearms license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 authorizes the licensee to carry a concealed pistol, revolver, or concealable firearm in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A license does not authorize the licensee to use a firearm in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this section.

(b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law enforcement officer to inspect any weapon without probable cause that a crime has been committed.

(2) A license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed firearm into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

(5) nothing in this code section shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

(6) the provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 16-11-129.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Maybe 3 should read "courthouse" instead of "public building."

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

It occurs to me that repealing 126 through 128 would result in Georgia being a state where open carry is legal without a license (like many other states). Therefore, public building is fine in (3), with the following tweak at the end.

Repeal 16-11-127 - 128 (and some others) and insert:

(1) (a) A firearms license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 authorizes the licensee to carry a concealed pistol, revolver, or concealable firearm in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A license does not authorize the licensee to use a firearm in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this section.

(b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law enforcement officer to inspect any weapon without probable cause that a crime has been committed.

(2) A license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed firearm into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building,

provided, however, that the provisions of subsection (3) shall not apply to a person in possession of a firearms license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 unless the public building is a courthouse, prison, or jail.

(5) nothing in this code section shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

(6) the provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 16-11-129.

 

[jrm]

I don't understand the purpose of the "tweak." Isn't the security screening discussion sufficient?

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Not sufficient for me. This is the tweak:

"provided, however, that the provisions of subsection (3) shall not apply to a person in possession of a firearms license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 unless the public building is a courthouse, prison, or jail."


So, unless the public building is a courthouse, prison, or jail, the screening devices may be used only to keep out a person who is carrying without a license.

(Remember, if 126-128 are repealed, Georgia would join the states in which carry is permitted openly without a license).

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

VCDL often writes to recalcitrant municipalities that try to deny entrance to public meetings with metal detectors.

If it works in Virginia, it can work here.

Nothing I have proposed is not already working in some other state.

 

[jrm]

MP,

If you didn't have the exception for buildings running security systems, I would understand. It just seems to me that both are not necessary. If you want both, however, I would make the tweak a separate sentence. As it is written, it runs on from the security system scenario.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I do not understand. This is the way several other :exceptions" are written in the Georgia Code.

Rewrite (3) as you suggest.

 

[Gunstar1]

Their is something wrong, what did you do with 4? :wink:
I think the numbering layout needs to be tweaked a little for Georgia. OCGA sections start with lowercase a.

Repeal 16-11-127 - 128 (and some others) and insert:

(a)(1) A firearms license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 authorizes the licensee to carry a concealed pistol, revolver, or concealable firearm in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A license does not authorize the licensee to use a firearm in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this section.
(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law enforcement officer to inspect any weapon without probable cause that a crime has been committed.

(b) A license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed firearm into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(c)(1) A license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:
(A) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;
(B) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and
(C) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.
(2) The provisions of subsection (c) shall not apply to a person in possession of a firearms license issued pursuant to section 16-11-129 unless the public building is a courthouse, prison, or jail.

(d) Nothing in this code section shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

(e) The provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 16-11-129.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

"or" needs to remain "and." Making this disjunctive has negative consequences for those carrying guns without a license.

Reread it, and I think you will agree.

As for the AWOL number 4 , I have no idea? I just cut and past your retrieval, then started modifying without paying much attention to the numbers.

"John" called me with a very good idea, so I am waiting for him to post it.