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Also, when told to raise your hands do you lift your hands straight up or do you windmill one arm towards the officer and pause while its pointing at the LEO?

The officer did not ask him to act like he is swimming the backstroke.

Justified.

Sorry MP, and this is the second pro-LEO outcome posted recently. :shock:
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
triggerman357 said:
I believe it's a bad idea to have your hand in your pocket during a police encounter.
I got soft and let a guy keep his hand in his pocket once because it was brutally cold outside. When I finally went to arrest him, he really hesitated about taking his hand out of his pocket. I grabbed him from behind and kepted him pinned up against the fender of his car (gently) and held onto his right arm with my other free hand and told him to take his hand out. He did. I handcuffed him. When I checked the pocket, there was a small .25 auto in there.

I never let another person keep their hand in their pocket again after that. I am sure some people thought I was a jerk for my sudden orders on this issue, but, well, one must learn from his experience when given the chance to learn.
Sheesh :jawdropper:

I'm guessing this guy didn't have a GFL? :mrgreen:
 

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Logic would dictate that if a cop has his gun pointed at you that you should oh... I dunno... not make any suspiscious movements.

On the other hand.. the cop clearly had the drop on him. If I were the cop, I would have waited to see the gun first. Cop freaked and probably shot too early.

Overall, it's not the best angle so who knows. Good shoot I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
foshizzle said:
If I were the cop, I would have waited to see the gun first.
If you were the cop, you would have thought he had a gun in his hand right then. That's it. Decision time. No "do overs."
 

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Sharky said:
phaed said:
good shoot.

lawyers are trying to say he was just "raising his hands" like ordered. it's bullshit, and they know it.

the subject pulled 1 hand out of his pocket and pointed it at the officer while his other stayed down. that's not compliance. any of us shooters know what that stance and that movement portrays. he was seeking suicide by cop, on drugs, crazy, or all the above imo.

mamma's probably just trying to capitalize off of the screwed up son she didn't care to raise correctly.
+1
+1 also.
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
If you were the cop, you would have thought he had a gun in his hand right then. That's it. Decision time. No "do overs."
So you know what the cop thought?

I know the video isn't conclusive. Unless you're one from the school of thought that thinks if you have a pistol pointed at someone and they make any sudden move it's open season.

Without that video there would be a problem.

If it were you or I and no video there would be a BIGGER problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
foshizzle said:
Malum Prohibitum said:
If you were the cop, you would have thought he had a gun in his hand right then. That's it. Decision time. No "do overs."
So you know what the cop thought?
No, I know what you would have thought, if you were the cop! :D
 

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Malum Prohibitum said:
No, I know what you would have thought, if you were the cop! :D
The video was at least 30 degrees from the FOV of the officer. You couldn't possibly know for sure.

This one is for the review board. Hard to armchair from the video alone.
 

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But why did he shoot to kill? :lol: Just kidding.

Seriously, one more stupid drunk driver off the road all because of his own fault. To me it looks like he is pulling something out of his pocket, which might have been alright if he raised his hands (as instructed) instead of pointing at the officer.

Why in the hell is this a civil rights law suit? I know why they are trying to file it as one but I sure do hope the Federal judge laughs this out the court.
 

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foshizzle said:
Malum Prohibitum said:
No, I know what you would have thought, if you were the cop! :D
The video was at least 30 degrees from the FOV of the officer. You couldn't possibly know for sure.

This one is for the review board. Hard to armchair from the video alone.
The determination of justified is not "knowing for sure".

reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person
(16) "Reasonable belief" means that the person concerned, acting as a reasonable man, believes that the described facts exist.
I can palm my Keltec P3AT so that a person viewing the back side of my hand would have no clue that I am holding a gun.

So an officer while talking to someone who will not obey commands and who points his arm towards you on a dark night you have a split second to decide to either:
A. wait for the possible muzzle flash and the chance that the shot kills you
B. shoot

Frankly, the fact that he was unarmed means he is a bigger fool than if he had one.
 

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I wonder would this shooting be justified if the situation was different and the officer was on private proverty during an investigation nearby. Would the officer be justified in taking a shot if he encountered the owner and he reacted the same way?
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Well, the circumstances in this case mean a lot. The officer followed him in to the next jurisdiction, he would not stay in his car, and, when the officer was pointing a gun at him, after the guy was repeatedly not obeying commands, he makes a swift gesture that looks exactly like drawing and pointing a firearm, with only the right arm, while his left arm remains at his side.

It would be hard to get that exact set of circumstances in other situations.
 

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Wow. It looks like he was just drunk off his arse and trying to hold his ID out, but in the same situation as the LEO, I think I would have shot as well.

Moral of the Story: Don't drive drunk, asshat.
 

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M249 said:
Wow. It looks like he was just drunk off his arse and trying to hold his ID out, but in the same situation as the LEO, I think I would have shot as well.

Moral of the Story: Don't drive drunk, asshat.
There's that and: If a LEO has a gun pointed at you, keep your hands high and do exactly what he says, when he says it.
 
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