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Just a Man
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/19-114.html

Rob
@rob99711


"New case to watch: Ciolek v New Jersey (19-114). It's another lawsuit over NJ's "justifiable need" requirement for carry permits. This is from a pro se petitioner who is an attorney. NJ initially waived their right to respond, but #SCOTUS requested one."

"The cert petition. NJ's response is due on 9/4."
http://supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-114/109036/20190723164538192_20190723-164217-95747150-00000909.pdf…

"This is the third lawsuit over the "justifiable need" requirement that is asking for cert at SCOTUS. The other two are Rogers v Grewal (18-824) and Cheeseman v Polillo (19-27). Cheeseman and Ciolek are both from NJ state court, while Rogers is from the 3rd Circuit."

ETA: If you are on Twitter you should follow Rob at the link above. He tweets a lot of information about 2A legal cases.
 

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It is a hopeful sign that the S.Ct. requested a response.
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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This one (as I understand it) is requesting a simple decision. It wants to resolve a disagreement between the Circuits. Is the 2A subject to intermediate or strict scrutiny?

Various Circuits say each of the 2 and some say SCOTUS decided on a new "text and historical understanding" basis.

I got a suspicion this will be as important (maybe more) as Heller.

Nemo

See Section III and IV (p. 8 ) of the Petition for Review.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/Docket...4538192_20190723-164217-95747150-00000909.pdf
 

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Which circuit(s) used strict scrutiny and in what case(s)?
 

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Just a Man
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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These make me hopeful the court is going to move on striking down state laws banning carry in public.

I bet it will be another decade later before nonresident carry and the right to travel is brought up . . .
 

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Which circuit(s) used strict scrutiny and in what case(s)?
Kind of, partially. 4th Circuit. Kolbe vs Hogan, 2016 (MD assault weapons ban). A 3-judge panel threw the case back down to the district court telling them strict scrutiny should be used to review the ban. The state appealed for and got an en banc hearing which reversed the 3-judge panel decision. The en banc decision was really bad.

3-judge panel article.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-magazines-and-semiautomatics/?noredirect=on

En banc article.
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca4/14-1945/14-1945-2017-02-21.html
 

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Just so you all know where this is, the appellant was denied a handgun license for failure to show justified need. The state courts refused to strike down the justifiable need requirement using intermediate scrutiny.

New Jersey is asking the Supreme Court not to accept the case.

(1) NJ argues that the law was amended in 2018 to define justifiable need, mooting the case.

(2) NJ argues that this was a state court opinion, so it does not deepen any divide in federal appellate courts that needs addressing from the Supreme Court.

(3) Even if it was a federal case, the federal courts have generally upheld good cause standards, and

(4) intermediate scrutiny is the correct standard recognized by most courts addressing good cause standards.
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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I suspect they will grant it if only to answer question no. 4 and find strict is required.

Nemo
 

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Just a Man
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

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Member Georgia Carry
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That was an excellent reply. NJ is about to get its butt handed to it by the SCOTUS.

You know, states like NJ, HI, CA, etc., have been infringing on our Second Amendment Rights for so long, I'd like to see the High Court just basically force them to mirror NH's current gun laws.

And then do the same for the rest of the country.
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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Id prefer they mirror Arizona or West Virginia laws.

Nemo
 

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Member Georgia Carry
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If you open carry in a state park in AZ, they can legally eject you. Not so in NH.

NH also does not criminalize K-12 carry. I think AZ does.
 

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...I'd like to see the High Court just basically force them to mirror NH's current gun laws.
We lived in NH for a handful of years in the mid 70s, early 80s before moving to Florida. It's not the panacea you think it is. Clinton beat Trump in 2016 by a hair. The state is pretty much a 50/50 split. The independents rule the elections. The commies democrats control both the senate and the house but not with super majorities. The only thing preventing new gun control laws is the Republican governor's veto. Sununu has been busy this year.

And then do the same for the rest of the country.
In a way I agree with the thought but not by copying NH's gun laws. Or any other state's gun laws. Constitutional rights should be fairly consistent among all the states. None of this crap about what works in Montana doesn't work in New Jersey. Rights are rights or they're not. Stop the game playing.
 

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Constitutional rights should be fairly consistent among all the states.
No.They should not vary in the least. One Constitution, 50 united states. Same rights for all.
 
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