[Ashe]

Anybody tried getting 3 shots in six seconds out of an Italian Carcano? Any tried to get those 3 shots to be accurate? How about getting three accurate shots in six seconds on a target 400+ yards away on a target that is moving away and to the right?

Now let's get a guy that had trouble getting through his markmanship qualification in basic to do it.

Now let's say we find the bullet that that killed him in pristine condition on the gurney as it fell out of his head.

Wow you don't even bother to get your facts right.

First, your timeline is wrong.
Shot 1 (Missed shot) --- Z160 (approx.), could actually be earlier as Zapruder had just turned his camera back on..
Shot 2 (SBT shot) ------ Z224.
Shot 3 (Head shot) ----- Z313.
Total Time around 8.3 seconds

Second the rifle was accurate enough to group about 4 inches at 100 yards when the FBI tested it. Which from what I understand was about average for that type of rifle.

Thirdly the distance was estimated by The Warren Commission at 176.9 feet (53.9 m) to 190.8 feet (58.2 m) from the sixth floor corner window of the Depository when he was shot in the neck, and 265.3 feet (80.9 m) when he was shot in the head. That's a huge difference from 200 yards.

Fourthly Oswald managed to score sharpshooter in basic, which is not "trouble getting through his marksmanship qualification".

In Dec. 1948, a new rifle course with a possible score of 250 points was introduced, similar to the scoring system used today.
Weapons ranges aboard the Depot saw drastic changes in the years leading up to the Korean War. The contraction of concrete grenade pits, and an indoor .22-caliber rifle range were several that occurred, Alvarez writes.
Alvarez writes, recruits fired the .22-caliber rifle prior to firing the M1 Garand to qualify on the range and were also familiarized with the Browning Automatic Rifle.
The first week on the range was devoted firing with no ammunition while aiming at large black dots painted on white wooden posts. The second week recruits fired both the .22-caliber and M1 rifles, and worked pulling targets in the rifle range pits.
“Record day†was a high point in recruit training and occurred during the third range week. Shots were fired in the standing, sitting, kneeling, and prone positions at the 200, 300 and 500-yard lines for a maximum score of 250 points. This system remained in place until 2007.
One hundred and ninety points were required to achieve the marksman's medal, 210 points for a sharpshooter, and an expert rifleman had to score 220-250 points, Alvarez writes.

So he managed to achieve more than 210 points at ranges starting at twice the distance he shot at the president from.

Fifthly, the bullet found "pristine condition on the gurney as it fell out of his head." The only part of your statement correct is it was found on a gurney,Only it was Governor Connally's gurney after it worked its way out of his leg and it wasn't in Pristine condition, which you could tell if you looked at it end on...

 

[68908]

The problems that I have with 9/11 was that NORAD stood down, Cheney gave the order for the stand down, and supposedly the exact same scenario was being "practiced" at the exact same time 9/11 was taking place.

I think the building was damaged in the exact way it was said it did, and I believe it came down the exact way they said it did.

I just find some of the other strange things that happened that day to be completely fishy. Especially, a strange report on the news that I saw on 9/11 that said the last plane had been shot down by a jet, then a fighter pilot actually received a medal where he talked about shooting down the plane, and then I never heard another word about that on the news. Not to mention eye witnesses say they saw the jet as well. Next thing that I heard was that the passengers brought down the plane. While I know the official explanation sounds a heck of a lot better than the one I heard on the news report, I do find the sort of fishy as well.

OK, I'll play conspiracy theory:

NORAD was standing down so a missile could hit the pentagon..... Donnie Rumsfeld came out the day before 9/11 and said the pentagon had lost a lot of money. The next day, terrorists supposedly flew a plane into the pentagon and destroyed the computer that was to be audited for the loss of cash. Coincidence? I think not. The hole was too small at the pentagon nor were there any aircraft parts laying about. Plus, with all the high tech cameras at the pentagon, all we get is a horrible image that shows everything fine one moment, blew up the next.... why is there not pics of the aircraft on approach to hitting the pentagon?

I don't know if the government had its hand in the Trade Centers, but it looks like they (the real powers that be) knew it was going to happen and didn't let a crisis go to waste.

I think I've about heard it all from the official story all the way to the wildest evil conspiracy theory. I still don't know what to think, mainly because there's something that I see is extremely improbable and yet it happened before my eyes..... both towers came down perfectly like a controlled demolition. One coming down, pancaking each level below it, never toppling to any side, was pretty wild.... but the next went down the same way.... what are the odds? Why didn't during the collapse did weight not shift due to variances in damage, fire locations, etc. I think at least one should have leaned and toppled more. To me, that's the equivalent of lightning striking twice.

And then there's the fact that I read something back in 1994 that predicted a 9/11 type of event would happen in the near future (it had predicted late summer 1999) and that it would be your cue to watch government start stripping away your freedoms and rights. It happened, just 2 years after when the author thought it would. Just as soon as they (the powers that be) get their security cameras up, RFIDs, cripple your ability to travel by air, and have tag tracking/cell phone tracking/internet tracking in place, the gates will close and the Constitution dies. "But, but, but, we got guns, they'll never..... " Yes, they will. If another conspiracy theory is true, you're all drugged up on lithium and flouride to make you too docile and passive to do anything.....which may be true already considering how easily tea partiers were herded back onto the republican plantation.

All I have to say to everyone, is that none of us are given all the facts. There's agendas at work, butts being covered, etc. etc. You should be questioning events as they were told to you because quite simply, the government's story and many facts just don't jive.

I agree with most of what you said, ESPECIALLY the part when Donald Rumsfeld and out and said that there was 2.3 Trillion taxpayer dollars MISSING on 9/10/01, ONE DAY before 9/11 and SOMEHOW, the "plane" hit exactly where the accounting departments computers were, destroying them completely, and killing all the accountants in the Pentagon. I'm sorry, but that is just a little bit too much of a coincidence for me to ignore.

If anybody doesn't believe this happened, just go watch it for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLU ... re=related

Watch the 2nd video. Now do you believe that our government is not out of control. You try and find a mere 300 million and you will be intimidated into the ground.

I believe that was completely an enemy action to preserve itself. Was it a missile? Was it a plane? I honestly don't know. It didn't look like a plane hit the building, and it really didn't look to me like a plane crashed out in the country, either, but I'm no expert on either.

I do believe the buildings came down naturally, due to fire, weakened steel, and weight. My father builds reinforced buildings for a living, I am going to believe him, as he is basically an expert in that field, especially when it comes to steel, physics, structures, and damage. He's fairly smart.

 

[68908]

I believe Oswald could have pulled off the shots, but I think there is probably a greater chance it was a true professional that pulled off those shots.

I've seen the shots recreated, and they seem extremely tough on a moving target. Its something you would most likely have to practice a lot to pull off.

The shots could have definitely been made in the time given. Its not like he was reloading a musket or something.

It just takes a very good shot.

 

[spector]

I believe Oswald could have pulled off the shots, but I think there is probably a greater chance it was a true professional that pulled off those shots.

I've seen the shots recreated, and they seem extremely tough on a moving target. Its something you would most likely have to practice a lot to pull off.

The shots could have definitely been made in the time given. Its not like he was reloading a musket or something.

It just takes a very good shot.

I would suggest that a marine who earned "sharpshooter" probably qualifies as a good shot/professional.

 

[68908]

I believe Oswald could have pulled off the shots, but I think there is probably a greater chance it was a true professional that pulled off those shots.

I've seen the shots recreated, and they seem extremely tough on a moving target. Its something you would most likely have to practice a lot to pull off.

The shots could have definitely been made in the time given. Its not like he was reloading a musket or something.

It just takes a very good shot.

I would suggest that a marine who earned "sharpshooter" probably qualifies as a good shot/professional.

I never suggested that he wasn't a very good shot/professional. It just hitting a moving target, from that distance, and getting two good shot, including a very clean kill shot to the head, would probably take a little bit of practice.

If Oswald had practice a similar shot when he was in Russia, or somewhere else, I would have a lot better belief that he was the one who pulled off the shot. That's all I was saying. That is one of the most difficult shots I've ever heard of being pulled off. I will say that the fact the driver hit breaks, instead of speeding up when he heard the first two shots, pretty much put Kennedy's head up on a platter for an expert sharpshooter.

Believe me, I know how Marine's can shoot. I'm married to a girl who's father is a Marine. That guy can shoot from very great distances very accurately. He's a good shot, and he did not make sharpshooter status. I can only imagine how good a marine is who gets sharpshooter status.

 

[bdee]

That is a sniper shot, not just for a 'marksman.' They just wanted to pick a guy that would maintain the narrative of Soviet aggression. Since he died, the sheep could go back to their lives, and sleep well again.

 

[Ashe]

That is a sniper shot, not just for a 'marksman.' They just wanted to pick a guy that would maintain the narrative of Soviet aggression. Since he died, the sheep could go back to their lives, and sleep well again.

Really?
I could make that shot all day long using Iron sights. I'm not a sniper.
But fact's don't seem to have any relevancy to your fantasies so it doesn't matter how much evidence there is.

 

[spector]

That is a sniper shot, not just for a 'marksman.' They just wanted to pick a guy that would maintain the narrative of Soviet aggression. Since he died, the sheep could go back to their lives, and sleep well again.

Really?
I could make that shot all day long using Iron sights. I'm not a sniper.
But fact's don't seem to have any relevancy to your fantasies so it doesn't matter how much evidence there is.

Doesn't the fact that it took 3 rounds (instead of 1) tell us that he was a pretty-damn-good but not-quite-the-best shot? Exactly what you'd think of someone with rifle training in that circumstance?

I'm with Ashe on this one: you can find whatever you want out of the events of that day -- but why? The official explanation is not only plausible, it is extremely probable. Why try to create something that isn't there?

 

[JiG]

Jesse Ventura tries Oswald's shot: start at 15:30

 

[Ashe]

Jesse Ventura tries Oswald's shot: start at 15:30

So a man with no experience with the weapon can't shoot it as fast or as well as someone who practiced with it is surprising?

If you want to talk video's Investigation Discovery reenacted the shots with results that were very similar to the actual events.

 

[JiG]

Jesse Ventura tries Oswald's shot: start at 15:30

So a man with no experience with the weapon can't shoot it as fast or as well as someone who practiced with it is surprising?

If you want to talk video's Investigation Discovery reenacted the shots with results that were very similar to the actual events.

Well, since only official explanations seem to work on you, the Warren commission couldn't duplicate it. So that's that, case closed.

And yeah, from the time I posted til you posted told me that while you may or may not have watched jesse try to shoot, you didn't watch the episode. You might have learned something, might have disagreed too. But oh well, you're more interested in making your case than taking in new info. That's cool. I see it all the time. Once we get defensive, rational discussion kinda goes out the window while everyone argues past each other.

 

[Hock25]

Anybody tried getting 3 shots in six seconds out of an Italian Carcano? Any tried to get those 3 shots to be accurate? How about getting three accurate shots in six seconds on a target 400+ yards away on a target that is moving away and to the right?

Now let's get a guy that had trouble getting through his markmanship qualification in basic to do it.

Now let's say we find the bullet that that killed him in pristine condition on the gurney as it fell out of his head.

400 yards? Now I understand how you can be swayed by the 9/11 crap. For someone to believe in fortune tellers, reincarnation, whatever, it requires a convenient suspension of acknowledging facts, and sometimes one single fact.

 

[Ashe]

Jesse Ventura tries Oswald's shot: start at 15:30

So a man with no experience with the weapon can't shoot it as fast or as well as someone who practiced with it is surprising?

If you want to talk video's Investigation Discovery reenacted the shots with results that were very similar to the actual events.

Well, since only official explanations seem to work on you, the Warren commission couldn't duplicate it. So that's that, case closed.

And yeah, from the time I posted til you posted told me that while you may or may not have watched jesse try to shoot, you didn't watch the episode. You might have learned something, might have disagreed too. But oh well, you're more interested in making your case than taking in new info. That's cool. I see it all the time. Once we get defensive, rational discussion kinda goes out the window while everyone argues past each other.

Really, you know for a fact I didn't watch the episode? Really? It's completely impossible I saw the episode when it first aired? Quick, whats next weeks lotto numbers Melvin the Magnificent?

I used to be really really big into the Kennedy Assassination, I even traveled to Daly Plaza once. But as I got older I kept noticing holes in all the theories.

I'm a big fan of facts, not theories , and there are no facts that prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was any sort of conspiracy. The ballistics all point to a single shooter , firing from above, behind and to the right of Kennedy when he was shot. The fact is that a rifle bought by A. Hidell (Oswald's alias) was found on the 6th floor of the Texas Schoolbook Repository. The fact is the forensics of that rifle match the recovered projectile from the assassination. You can argue that someone else made the shot all you want, (I'll agree that some of Oswald's later behaviors don't make sense, but neither does shooting Kennedy) But all evidence points to one rifle, firing from the TSR Killed Kennedy.

 

[JiG]

Jesse Ventura tries Oswald's shot: start at 15:30

So a man with no experience with the weapon can't shoot it as fast or as well as someone who practiced with it is surprising?

If you want to talk video's Investigation Discovery reenacted the shots with results that were very similar to the actual events.

Well, since only official explanations seem to work on you, the Warren commission couldn't duplicate it. So that's that, case closed.

And yeah, from the time I posted til you posted told me that while you may or may not have watched jesse try to shoot, you didn't watch the episode. You might have learned something, might have disagreed too. But oh well, you're more interested in making your case than taking in new info. That's cool. I see it all the time. Once we get defensive, rational discussion kinda goes out the window while everyone argues past each other.

Really, you know for a fact I didn't watch the episode? Really? It's completely impossible I saw the episode when it first aired? Quick, whats next weeks lotto numbers Melvin the Magnificent?Sorry, can't give you lottery numbers, that's an unethical use of my psychic abilities.

I used to be really really big into the Kennedy Assassination, I even traveled to Daly Plaza once. But as I got older I kept noticing holes in all the theories. But not holes in the official explanation. Interesting.

I'm a big fan of facts, not theories , and there are no facts that prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was any sort of conspiracy. I stopped reading here. Sorry, there are FACTS that do point to a conspiracy. I'm not big into the assassination, I admit. But why were all the records sealed immediately? Huh? If the truth is out in the open, then why the secrecy?