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Seasteading Aficionado
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Yep, no accountability, its like they are just above the law. Its disgusting.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
But far too often, we create monsters so you watch this hand, while the true intent is to keep you from looking what is really going on.

Everyone should look up the World Trade Center and ask themselves why a chemical analysis of the site contained thermite. Then they should ask themselves at what temperatures is it required to melt steel, and how hot does jet fuel burn for 30 minutes in an open space.

Then they should ask themselves why agents escorted the underwear bomber, Abdulmutallab around security checkpoints and directly onto the plane only to arrest him minutes later for bringing explosives onto the plane.

But let's create a monster so the sheep wil go where we tell them to.
 

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bdee said:
Everyone should look up the World Trade Center and ask themselves why a chemical analysis of the site contained thermite. Then they should ask themselves at what temperatures is it required to melt steel, and how hot does jet fuel burn for 30 minutes in an open space.
:lol:
:rotfl:

Quick whats Thermite made from? Do you think those materials may be present in every Highrise building?

They should also ask themselves "at what temperatures is it required to melt steel, and how hot does [s:1nos3hsy]jet fuel[/s:1nos3hsy] gasoline burn for 30 minutes in an open space."

And then read about the California Interchange fire.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269118,00.html#
Witnesses reported flames rising up to 200 feet into the air. Heat exceeded 2,750 degrees and caused the steel beams holding up the interchange from eastbound I-80 to eastbound Interstate 580 above to buckle and bolts holding the structure together to melt, leading to the collapse, California Department of Transportation director Will Kempton said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269118,00.html##ixzz1DVDed9rM
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thermite is not used in buildings. It is used to bring them down. Nor is it a byproduct of some other chemical reaction such as heat.

While this article does not mention thermite it debunks the idea that the fire was sufficient to bring down the buildings.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/01 ... -0112.html

How do we explain the pillars of white smoke coming from the basement area moments before its collapse. Watch some videos from the collapse. Thermite produces heavy white smoke.
 

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bdee said:
Thermite is not used in buildings. It is used to bring them down. Nor is it a byproduct of some other chemical reaction such as heat.

While this article does not mention thermite it debunks the idea that the fire was sufficient to bring down the buildings.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/01 ... -0112.html

How do we explain the pillars of white smoke coming from the basement area moments before its collapse. Watch some videos from the collapse. Thermite produces heavy white smoke.
Thermite is made of Iron Oxide(rust) and aluminum. Both are present in modern construction.

Lots of things cause heavy white smoke, and your article does nothing to debunk anything.
So if someone intentionally used thermite (not exactly the best choice to do structural damage but I'll give it to you), who did it and why?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The owners of the building took out a massive insurance policy on the buildings in case of a terrorist attack just months before 9/11.

The buildings were sitting half empty at the time. That's because NYC had changed their building codes. In 1972 it was legal to use asbestos as a fire retardant. Then they changed the law saying it was dangerous. What the city was doing to the building owners, and the reason the previous owner was forced to sell is that that they had to bring all office space up to code before allowing a new tenant in. It would have cost billions to retrofit all that empty office space.

Turns out cheaper to start fresh, and with an insurance settlement to pay for it.

Then I suggest you watch this news cast about the collapse of Building 7. Turns out this was reported 30 minutes prior to its actual collapse.....oops!

Then it turns out that all of the materials for the Enron investigation were housed in this building. All of it was lost and the investigation collapsed.
 

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So the building's owners knew that Al-Queda was going to fly planes into the WTC, so they set it up so they could destroy the building afterwards. Enron, decided that they could use it to destroy some incriminating evidence, and the Media was given the heads up on the story. And no one leaked this information beforehand?

You would think by how much the Media proclaimed to hate Bush, that they wouldn't have went along with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
No I am saying folks from Saudi and Egypt flew planes into buildings, that is not what brought them down. Let no good crisis go to waste.

As for the media, I think we all know that they are easily manipulated.
 

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bdee said:
No I am saying folks from Saudi and Egypt flew planes into buildings, that is not what brought them down. Let no good crisis go to waste.

As for the media, I think we all know that they are easily manipulated.
So who set the thermite and when did they place it there?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I doubt we'll ever know who actually set it, but they had over an hour and a half to do it. Larry Silverstein admits on tape that he had Building 7 'pulled' so we know the folks were there.
 

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So they snuck in past all of the fire and police to plant the thermite?


It doesn't matter what anyone says, you will believe what you want no matter how many holes it has.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Absolutely, and I buy that a single shooter took out JFK with a magic bullet as well. Why scrutinize the official reports, they are smarter than us, right?
 

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I took all the 9/11 questions to my father, an engineer, that builds nuclear facilities for a living. He knows a lot about things, such as reinforced concrete, how long it would take for a fire to weaken steel to the point where weight applied to it would cause it to fail, and a bunch of other things, such as nuclear bombs and their effect on structures, I mean some of the stuff he knows is beyond what happened at the World Trade Centers.

I asked him about the fire and the building, and the damage caused to it by the planes, and he said that it was definitely possible for the fuel, office fire to get hot enough to weaken the steel, especially when the howling winds that are present at such heights make the hole in the building, which essentially acts as a KILN. He also told me that the way the building fell was exactly how he would have expected it. Once a few floors' steel failed, the weight of all the above floors falling on floors below it would pancake exactly as we saw. I asked him about this years ago, so I forget all the specifics he gave me, but he said it was possible, and even gave me specific facts such as temperatures and the effect of wind on fire, physics. I believe him, and expert.

The problems that I have with 9/11 was that NORAD stood down, Cheney gave the order for the stand down, and supposedly the exact same scenario was being "practiced" at the exact same time 9/11 was taking place.

I think the building was damaged in the exact way it was said it did, and I believe it came down the exact way they said it did.

I just find some of the other strange things that happened that day to be completely fishy. Especially, a strange report on the news that I saw on 9/11 that said the last plane had been shot down by a jet, then a fighter pilot actually received a medal where he talked about shooting down the plane, and then I never heard another word about that on the news. Not to mention eye witnesses say they saw the jet as well. Next thing that I heard was that the passengers brought down the plane. While I know the official explanation sounds a heck of a lot better than the one I heard on the news report, I do find the sort of fishy as well.

I know the official explanation is a lot easier to swallow and personally makes my heart swell with pride, but I'm just not sure I can ever fully believe the official story on that one.

As far as JFK, its already been proven, physically, that one bullet did hit Kennedy through the back and chest, and traveled in a perfect straight line through to Governor Connally.

Connally was sitting much lower than Kennedy in the jump seat, and inches to the inside, because the jump seat had been created and put into the Limo. That's been proven. Connally was also turned to the right, and his body was twisted. That can be seen in the video. Its pretty much been proven that the bullet followed all normal laws of physics.

I don't believe there was a second shooter. Was Oswald the shooter, though? I honestly do not know. There is some evidence the the CIA and the failed Operation 40 guys could have had something to do with it. I also, don't believe Oswald was just some Lone Wolf that killed Kennedy all on his own. There were other things going on than just a Lone Wolf. He may or may not have been the shooter. If he was, I believe there were other people behind it. Other people that pushed him to do it.


Edited for spelling and clarity.
 

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Penn & Teller show exactly how JFK could've been shot:
Makes sense to me.

And aren't a bunch of pissed off muslims hijacking planes a big enough conspiracy? I doubt our government is competent enough to have pulled off something like that. They can't even deliver a letter properly.
 

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spector said:
Penn & Teller show exactly how JFK could've been shot:
Makes sense to me.

And aren't a bunch of pissed off muslims hijacking planes a big enough conspiracy? I doubt our government is competent enough to have pulled off something like that. They can't even deliver a letter properly.
Penn and Teller aren't the only ones that have proved that when a head is shot with that caliber, the head actually moves in the direction of the shot, due to the amount of physical matter leave the head from the exit wound. Back and to the left. The left comes from the fact that the exit wound was to the right of center. Its pure physics. Plain and simple.

Small entry wound, very little resistance, and then large exit wound, as matter is expelled out of the skull.

As far as the government pulling cover-ups, yes, some factions of our government are very good at cover ups. I don't think we should compare the post office to the CIA, DOJ or some of the other agencies within our government.

As a whole out government is very inefficient, but there are small groups within our government who don't have the large huge bureaucracies to work through that most of our government does. Mainly because what they do has basically no to poor bureaucratic oversight.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Anybody tried getting 3 shots in six seconds out of an Italian Carcano? Any tried to get those 3 shots to be accurate? How about getting three accurate shots in six seconds on a target 400+ yards away on a target that is moving away and to the right?

Now let's get a guy that had trouble getting through his markmanship qualification in basic to do it.

Now let's say we find the bullet that that killed him in pristine condition on the gurney as it fell out of his head.
 

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EJR914 said:
The problems that I have with 9/11 was that NORAD stood down, Cheney gave the order for the stand down, and supposedly the exact same scenario was being "practiced" at the exact same time 9/11 was taking place.

I think the building was damaged in the exact way it was said it did, and I believe it came down the exact way they said it did.

I just find some of the other strange things that happened that day to be completely fishy. Especially, a strange report on the news that I saw on 9/11 that said the last plane had been shot down by a jet, then a fighter pilot actually received a medal where he talked about shooting down the plane, and then I never heard another word about that on the news. Not to mention eye witnesses say they saw the jet as well. Next thing that I heard was that the passengers brought down the plane. While I know the official explanation sounds a heck of a lot better than the one I heard on the news report, I do find the sort of fishy as well.
OK, I'll play conspiracy theory:

NORAD was standing down so a missile could hit the pentagon..... Donnie Rumsfeld came out the day before 9/11 and said the pentagon had lost a lot of money. The next day, terrorists supposedly flew a plane into the pentagon and destroyed the computer that was to be audited for the loss of cash. Coincidence? I think not. The hole was too small at the pentagon nor were there any aircraft parts laying about. Plus, with all the high tech cameras at the pentagon, all we get is a horrible image that shows everything fine one moment, blew up the next.... why is there not pics of the aircraft on approach to hitting the pentagon?

I don't know if the government had its hand in the Trade Centers, but it looks like they (the real powers that be) knew it was going to happen and didn't let a crisis go to waste.

I think I've about heard it all from the official story all the way to the wildest evil conspiracy theory. I still don't know what to think, mainly because there's something that I see is extremely improbable and yet it happened before my eyes..... both towers came down perfectly like a controlled demolition. One coming down, pancaking each level below it, never toppling to any side, was pretty wild.... but the next went down the same way.... what are the odds? Why didn't during the collapse did weight not shift due to variances in damage, fire locations, etc. I think at least one should have leaned and toppled more. To me, that's the equivalent of lightning striking twice.

And then there's the fact that I read something back in 1994 that predicted a 9/11 type of event would happen in the near future (it had predicted late summer 1999) and that it would be your cue to watch government start stripping away your freedoms and rights. It happened, just 2 years after when the author thought it would. Just as soon as they (the powers that be) get their security cameras up, RFIDs, cripple your ability to travel by air, and have tag tracking/cell phone tracking/internet tracking in place, the gates will close and the Constitution dies. "But, but, but, we got guns, they'll never..... " Yes, they will. If another conspiracy theory is true, you're all drugged up on lithium and flouride to make you too docile and passive to do anything.....which may be true already considering how easily tea partiers were herded back onto the republican plantation.

All I have to say to everyone, is that none of us are given all the facts. There's agendas at work, butts being covered, etc. etc. You should be questioning events as they were told to you because quite simply, the government's story and many facts just don't jive.
 
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