China - In the open, yet we continue to ignore

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by AV8R, Jun 15, 2007.

  1. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    I do not see a viable economic alternative.

    Besides, what they do in their county is none of our (the United States') business.
     

  2. Mobster989

    Mobster989 New Member

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    I'm kind of worried that there is no outcry against the free trade agreements and junk like that. Distributors in the US are importing cheap goods from China and Mexico for a fraction of the cost to make the products in America, yet the prices of the goods are not going down any considerable amount. They are making windfall profits that way and ruining small businesses. And no big splash among congress, probably because those businesses are sending part of their profits into congressional coffers.
     
  3. Dan H

    Dan H New Member

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    China will be the biggest superpower in a short time. Because of that we will want to become allies with them. Not to mention they have the biggest man army...
     
  4. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    We had similar stuff going on during our own industrial revolution. Maybe it will improve, maybe it won't.

    People will still choose the Chinese version of a comparable product if it costs 25% less... I dunno about you guys, but if they were selling gas at one station for 1.25$ that was refined by 8 year olds or gas at another station that was 3.50$ refined by unions, I would pick the cheap gas produced by child slave labor. So would most people. Sucks, but it's reality.

    We'll pay the piper soon enough. Not in SHTF type scenarios... just the gradual devaluation of our the assets we all possess... as well as our overall purchasing power. Nobody has to invade us. They just have to make the comparative advantage so great that we rely on them for everything that keeps us free lol.
     
  5. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    Perhaps if your grandchildren are enslaved and beaten to work 18 hours a day for their masters, it will be nobody's business but yours (or theirs?)

    Honestly, if you walked by, saw 5 kids whom are obviously enslaved to make widgets, and they are selling them for 50% cheaper than next door (the folks who make them with paid labor) then you can look those kids in the eye and buy their widgets?

    Oh, so since you can't see them now, its ok. :-k
     
  6. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    Therein, sir, lies the problem.
     
  7. Dan H

    Dan H New Member

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    Unfortunately we live in a capitalistic society which promotes just that. But its also a fine line. Are we to impose our will on every country that we see fit? I dont think so. However, we have when we are looking out for our own economic interest.

    I will say this about China: I have been there many times and as much as I dont necessarily agree with the amount of poverty and "slave" labor that is there. Everyone has a job, everyone does something there. There is no welfare. You sink or you swim. For that, I respect the people there. However, it is up to their own government to decide the laws on these things and I would agree that they arent necessarily stellar at that.

    If you think it is our duty to step in and intervene on foreign soil, then how come we havent done anything about the Genocide in Darfur? Let me guess, is it in our best economic interest to do so? Any oil over there?
     
  8. AV8R

    AV8R Banned

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    Easy, trigger... I never said anything about putting boots on the ground, intervening, or seeking oil.

    I wish I had some answers (stop buying their crap? tax the hell out of it? make sure every American knows that their money is paying for whips and chains?) Ignoring it sure as hell isn't gonna work. I was hoping to hear something a little more constructive.
     
  9. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    Well, I guess we could really start calling them out on how their levels of pollution and consumption are surpassing our own. Everyone seems to be on a global warming kick lately... there is mass murder every day in Darfur and hardly anybody cares, but people here bend over backwards to save crickets if an highway goes through their habitat. Slam them on that and call out every company that does business with them. Say it increases their "carbon footprint" or whatever that stuff means. I think it's garbage but there are a lot of people really worked up over it all.

    There is also the issue of them devaluing their own currency versus the dollar. Trade protection stuff usually gets people riled up... the old you can sell to us but we can't sell to you argument. They are manipulating their prices against us... I hear about that all the time on Bulls and Bears or the talking heads during business segements. Americans hate stuff like that.

    My point is that maybe there is another way to hit China other than on the child labor and human rights abuses. That has been going on forver, we have known it forever and it doesn't mean anything. In fact, they pretty much flaunt it. It's not right, but it's not changing either. There are lots of means to an end...
     
  10. Dan H

    Dan H New Member

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    Just trying to have a friendly discussion. I agree, its hard to be constructive on these difficult topics. I will address your two suggestions however.

    Stop buying it? Nope, big business will not do that due to bottom lines and shareholders.
    Tax the hell out of it? Nope, see above. Said big business is what keeps governments pockets lined so legislation to heavily tax imported goods will never happen. Greed will always overrule what is "right".

    Force in numbers is the only influence the "People" have on governments and their policies and opinions. The government knows that the sheeples would never hassle with the proposition of making a difference by banding together and standing side by side on anything...

    Therefore, said people will continue to take what they dont want and say "Thank you".
     
  11. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Two things:

    1. I want a free market system, nearly devoid of government intervention. The market can solve its own problems; maybe not at the speed you would like it to but it will.

    2. If I saw five kids that were enslaved I would tell the authorities. It's not my job to play police man and saved the day for the downtrodden.

    Would I buy those widgets? Sure! I buy sneakers made by near slave labor now, so why not later? I'd imagine that everyone that posts here has at least one pair for sneakers. Were they made in the USA? Probably not. They were probably made in the Phillipines in a sweat shop. So it may be a little bit late to get high and mighty about accepting products produced by slave or near slave labor.

    Besides, if we wish to continue to live in the opulent society that we live in today there are going to be externalities.