CCP was denied...

Discussion in 'GWL News & Information' started by Guest, Dec 11, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My permit was denied due to a second degree misdemeanor marijauna charge which occurred in Alabama 16 years ago. Is there a process in which I can remove this from my record and obtain my conceal carry permit? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I currently reside in Cobb county.
    Thank you!
     
  2. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    Paul,

    What can be done with your record is going to be a matter of AL law. If you want to pursue it, you should contact an AL attorney to help you out, perhaps even the one who defended you in your case.
     

  3. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    What is Marijuana?

    Georgia's laws sometimes distinguish between "controlled substances" (cocaine, methamphetamine, hydrocodone, etc.) and "dangerous drugs" (most prescription medications) and "marijuana." Sometimes marijuana is treated differently from either of the other two categories. Sometimes, however, all of them are lumped together.

    The pistol permit law (16-11-129-b-5) says that no license shall be issued to any one convicted for an offense regarding a "controlled substance" or "other dangerous drug."
    QUESTION: Does that include marijuana?

    The statute itself says that for the definition of "controlled substance," see the list found at 16-13-21, paragraph 4.

    Paragraph 4 of that citation, in turn, refers you to a long list of controlled substances found in the Code of Federal Regulations, CFR Part 1308.
    I have never looked up this list, but I assume (perhaps incorrectly?) that Schedules 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 of the CFR list are identical to those Schedules as they appear later in the Georgia code, 16-13-24 thru 16-13-29.
    Is marijuana anywhere on either one of those groups of Schedules?
    I don't see it there.

    Now the pistol permit code section also says that a conviction for possessing some "other dangerous drug" will also disqualify you from getting a permit. This code section itself defines "dangerous drug" as one that is defined as such in Code section 16-13-71. These are prescription drugs, not particularly dangerous, but dangerous enough that you can only get them with a doctor's approval. Things like "house dust," "insects," and "trees." Honest! Read the statute for yourself. Possession of an "early spring tree" without a prescription can disqualify you from ever getting a Georgia Firearms License!

    The list is THOUSANDS of items long, but it is alphabetical. I don't see "marijuana" listed there, nor its active ingridient, "cannibus."

    So then, exactly why does the probate court say that this Alambama misdemeanor marijuana conviction disqualifies somebody from getting a GFL ? That's a question worth looking into with regard to Georgia law, too. Not just Alabama law.
     
  4. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    Gunsmoker,

    The controlled substances act does not lists marijuana. It lists tetrahydrocannabinols (THC), which is the active ingredient (cannabis is the genus of the plant, not the ingredient). OCGA 16-13-25(3)(P).

    I have tried to draw the distinction between "marijuana" and "THC" in cases in the past, and I have not been very successful. For example, I have taken the position that the state's identifying a possessed substance as part of a marijuana plant is not the same as proving possession of THC, because the only way to prove that THC is present is to have expert testimony of a chemical analysis.
     
  5. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    Paul, what you will need to have done is get the conviction removed from your AL record, completely. Meaning that the next time a background check is done, the conviction will not be shown.

    GA law says that no matter if you were guilty, plead no contest, offered first offender, or even if you get a pardon, you still cannot get a GFL. Does not matter if it was misdemeanor posession.

    Now you could have killed someone and done your time, if you get a pardon, then you could get a GFL. However here in Georgia, if you got caught with one joint and served no jail time (maybe paid a fine or were on probation for a short time) as long as that shows up on your background check, then you can never get a GFL even if the President of the United States gave you a pardon.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Permit Denied...

    So what you are saying is what I have recently found out myself. The two joints of weed that was in my car, was in fact a please pay the clerk on your way out of my town son type of violation. That said the process for expungment requires??? Do I need to get an attorney or is this something I can petition the court to do upon proper request? Would an attorney be helpful? Or would that just be a needless step which I could eliminate and just do this through an application process.
    Whatever guidance you can provide would be great and "Thank You" to those that have so expidiously responded.

    Thanks again,
    Paul
     
  7. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    Paul,

    Expungement of records is a matter of state law. Unless someone here knows what the process is in AL, you might have to find out for yourself. The process in GA is fairly simple and straightforward, and can be done without a layer by someone who takes the time to find out what has to be done. You could try calling the clerk of courts where you conviction was entered, and the records department of the agency that cited/arrested you. One of them might be able to tell you what you have to do. But, neither one can be expected to give you accurate advice on what you are entitled to. You either will have to find that out through independent research or by hiring an AL attorney.
     
  8. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    You're not going to want to hear this, but you came here for information.

    Alabama does not expunge records... at least according to the state of Alabama pardon website. I urge you to do your own research as this is just what I found during a quick search online.

    http://www.pardons.state.al.us/ALABPP/Main/FAQ.html

    Q Are records of conviction destroyed in cases where a pardon is granted with a restoration of civil and political rights?

    A No. Alabama does not expunge records. The arrest and conviction will continue to show up when a criminal history is run. It is important to keep a copy of your pardon in case it is ever requested.

    You can get a pardon though... but it won't help with your GFL. You should do this regardless... I imagine it is something you can do yourself and get back quickly... especially given the time since you were convicted.

    Q When is a person eligible to apply for a pardon with restoration of civil and political rights in Alabama?

    A Upon the completion of a sentence or after a person has completed 3 consecutive years of successful Alabama parole. Persons still under sentence and not having completed 3 years of successful parole may apply for a pardon, but it must be based on innocence and requires the approval of the sentencing court or prosecuting District Attorney. An individual placed on supervised or unsupervised probation may apply for a pardon after completion of their probationary period.

    It IS a stupid requirement for a GFL... I agree. I've made some dumb mistakes as an adult... luckily none of them have come back to bite me... yet.
     
  9. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    TCH vs. Marijuana

    JRM, that's a good point about the THC. I would not think that they are the same thing. Was it the intent of the legislature to refer to marijuana in both cases, but calling it by its common name in one place while using the scientific name for the active ingredient in another place? Why not just call it Marijuana uniformly? Or THC uniformly?

    The list of "dangerous drugs" includes two forms of nicotine. Yet tobacco cigarettes are not dangerous drugs under that Code section. I would think that both nicotine and THC are things the legislature meant to criminalize as "dangerous drugs" only when extracted from the plant and kept in a form that is ready to dispense as a concentrated dose. Possession of the plant from which that ingredient comes is regulated in other areas of the Code.

    But that's just a WAG. Wild- 455- Guess.
     
  10. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Expungements

    I don't know a thing about Alabama law, but in Georgia you cannot expunge an arrest record that ends in a conviction. The record can be corrected if it is factually inaccurate or misleading. But to expunge it and make it come off your GCIC-- that's reserved for charges that are dropped or otherwise end without a criminal conviction.

    Secondly, in Georgia an expungement is only going to take something off your GCIC when that GCIC is run for purposes of employment, obtaining credit, or other civil purposes. Even an expunged record will show up on a GCIC pulled by a law enforcement agency to be used in a criminal proceeding. Is getting a gun permit a civil rather than criminal matter? Sure. But will the GCIC be run under a purpose code that says it's a Court or Law Enforcement Agency requesting the record so as to include all information? Maybe. It's something to look into.

    In an ideal world, a "pardon" would remove all legal disabilities that come from a conviction and everyone would be required to treat you as if you had never been convicted of that thing you were pardoned for. Every government agency, regarding every issue where the question might come up. And in an ideal world, politicians would not issue pardons to well-connected cronies and influence peddlers, or pardon the undeserving to make political alliances.

    Guess what? We don't live in an ideal world!
     
  11. Gunstar1

    Gunstar1 Administrator

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    A pardon and an expungment are 2 different things.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Permit Denied...

    Thanks again! I am finding there are many different opinions on this expungment process. I spoke to one Alabama resident who had a much more serious felony conviction expunged. He has systematically checked to see if this arrest has surfaced on background checks and it to all appearances has disappeared. After the holidays, and after a few more calls to the clerk there in Jacksonville, Alabama I will endeavor or go over and research this in person. One always gets more information in person. Additionally I'll find my shyster lawyer that represented me, (what a waste of money) on this first offense, misdeameanor.
    Any information will be gladly accepted and will come in handy as I attempt to make this go away. Fortunately Georgia law still allows me to carry my weapon in most cases and especially on my own property and in my vehicle. This will suffice for now.
    Sincere thanks,
    Paul
     
  13. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Permit Denied...

    You might want to read U97-29.
     
  14. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: What is Marijuana?

    Gunsmoker, according to the text of the attorney general opinion I linked in the previous post, it is on the federal Schedule I. Also look at the case cite under the signature.

    The description of what THC is limited under state law is also very interesting.
     
  15. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    Good Work, Bad News

    Okay, so even though "THC" is the thing that GEORGIA lists as a Schedule 1 controlled substance, not "marijuana" or "marihuana," the FEDERAL CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE LIST, schedule 1, does list it.
    And the Georgia pistol permit law says that if you get convicted of any offense regarding any of the thousands of drugs on either the federal list of the state list, you can't get a GFL. Ever.

    Oh, man what a major bummer. That's enough to make me want to go home and swipe my finger under the bed and come up with a hit of "house dust." :wink:
     
  16. bladeluv

    bladeluv New Member

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    Confuzzed?? over laws on pardons?

    HI:
    I have had a ccw permit for about 20 years! I had a rights restored to include firearms. I also have a dangerous drugs charge just hanging in mid air! This drug charge was in 1973.
    When I went to renew my carry permit I was told to get a dispission or dismissel on the drug charge. The FBI knows the records is there it is on background check and says no charges pending none expected and I can buy a gun.
    I wrote to superior court and they sent me a letter saying the drug charge was never sent to Grand Jury, in other words not convicted. The letter also says there is no pending charges against me. This my friends was 34 years ago! I have a ccw for 20 yrs now! I have a clean record for the 34 years since then! I was a young guy of 22 back in 1973.
    Will the judge not give me my renewal you think? I was not charged with the drug charge. And a pardon for a non violent Felony with 3yrs probation on it.
    I just can't understand how I can be clean 34 yrs and a permit 20 yrs and not be renewed! Again I was not charged with the drug case.
    Thanks for hearing me out. Any legal smart guy or gal lawyer, could you shed a bit of light on what I maybe faceing!
    Thanks :cry:
     
  17. jrm

    jrm Sledgehammer

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    What state were the charges in?
     
  18. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

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    Was this in GA?

    If so the arrest record can be expunged, provided the charge never went to the Grand Jury. You start with the DA's office that dissmissed the case. This process will take a while.

    However, the dissmissal letter from the DA should be enough to get your permit.
     
  19. bladeluv

    bladeluv New Member

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    Fulton charge

    HI:
    Thanks for the response! Yes it was Fulton County County GA! Yes the Charge for drugs DID NOT GO TO A GRAND JURY!
    Thanks for such fast response and I hope to hear others view!
    Bladeluv
     
  20. legacy38

    legacy38 Active Member

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    My understanding is that an expungement can only be obtained for an arrest that was dismissed prior to trial.