[Bulldawg182]

I know the fallout here will be unbearable for some, but I can take it.

I have a major problem voting "Yes" on this poll and won't do so. I believe there are people who shouldn't be carrying weapons and this poll doesn't qualify them. I also believe the permit and background check system not only helps to exclude these people, it also helps to raise those who have a permit to a higher level and is a primary reason for the gains in Georgia gun laws through the efforts of GCO and others. I'm not going to vote to make the permit obsolete and meaningless.

I think any attempt to make it legal for any citizen to carry a gun openly or concealed without a background check or permit is doomed to fail and will only serve to damage the overall effort to gain more ground for permit holders.

Ok, fire away if you will......but it won't change my opinion. You're entitled to yours and I'm entitled to mine.

 

[Bulldawg182]

You do realize that the majority of the country requires no license to carry openly, right? Only 13 states require a license to carry openly (a few states, like Florida, ban the practice of carrying openly outside of a few situations). In addition, 3 states require no license to carry concealed, and many others have exceptions for carrying concealed without a license in certain situations (even Georgia, such as in the car, business, or on your own property). Please elaborate on how these successful efforts were doomed to failure, and, more importantly, how they have damaged the overall effort, using specific examples, please.

majority of the country requires no license to carry openly, right

Please name any major metropolis city in the country where it's legal to carry openly without a license.

(a few states, like Florida, ban the practice of carrying openly outside of a few situations

Yes, but Florida requires training and a license to carry concealed and the few situations you cite for open carry are useless.

3 states require no license to carry concealed

Please name these three states.

(even Georgia, such as in the car, business, or on your own property). Please elaborate on how these successful efforts were doomed to failure, and, more importantly, how they have damaged the overall effort, using specific examples, please

We're not referring to in a car, business, home or on your own property in this situation and I've never mentioned or inferred that these areas were or should have been doomed to failure.

It is my opinion that:
1. any effort to pass legislation to make it legal to carry in Atlanta (openly or concealed) without a permit will be doomed to fail and will cause major public relations setbacks for more realistic efforts to gain further advances for permit holders.
2. there's a major difference between carrying openly in Devil's Pass, Wyoming and in downtown Chicago or Boston or Atlanta.
3. the majority of the political and/or media allies we've earned in the passed 5 years or so will run for cover and abandon us should we try to force no permit carrying.
4. all the credibility groups like GCO have earned in the past will dissipate as a result for any effort to achieve non-permit carry.

No specifics, no examples....just my opinion which carries no more and no less weight than yours! I've been wrong before and am prepared to be wrong again in the future.....how about you?

 

[Bulldawg182]

If I'm reading correctly, only 3 states now fit the bill which is the topic of the poll being discussed in this thread. Only AK, AZ & VT currently allow open or concealed carry without a permit....correct?

We've had similar discussions in the past and, while there's many ways to cloud the end result by talking about California type situations and disguising Montpelier as a major city, the truth is that only 3 states currently allow open or concealed carry without a permit.

I stand by my opinion that barring polar bears, grizzly bears or mountain lions invading downtown Atlanta, trying to get Georgia to allow open and concealed carry without any permit is ludicrous and far fetched. Yet, I wish you luck in your endeavor.

I predict that is also the year Bulldawg will be moving to Florida, too, in order to escape the freedom-loving crazies here in Georgia. Better put in for a GPDO name change... Gator182

AV8R, take your "freedom loving crazy" BS somewhere else.....and take your little :lol: crap with it. You're no friend of mine and certainly not someone making cute talk with your little smilies so save your sarcastic BS for some one who'll fall for it......try your dog or maybe your wife.

 

[Bulldawg182]

You left out Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, and many other metro areas of Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is not a Constitutional Carry state, but open carry without a permit is legal

open carry is generally legal....a LTCF is required only in Philly and to carry in a car,train,bus,bike etc( a license from any state even one without reciprocity with PA is honored for vehicle carry or Philly OC)

As such, Pennsylvania and the cities mentioned above are not relevant to the poll which is the topic of this thread.

 

[Bulldawg182]

Maybe not to the topic of this thread but to your post that asked for the name of ONE (1) major city that allowed open or concealed without a permit. Several have been named and for the one state you have 3. So if you only want one just pick one of the many.

I would hardly call "3" states "many" and I stand by my opinion and have yet to see a "major city" that allows open or concealed carry without a permit. I stand by my opinion that attempting to promote same in Atlanta, Ga will prove to be both an unpopular and political mistake and, as such, will not succeed and further, will prove detrimental to future attainable gains.

I know that my opinion is unpopular here and that some of lesser character will suggest that I might not be a "freedom loving Georgian" or that I should move to another state, but such drivel has not and will not change my opinion.

Either way, I will not be supportive of any attempt by this group or any other which promotes open or concealed carry without a permit or background check.

 

[Bulldawg182]

So you think the murderers and criminals care what we do with carry laws? How will allowing more citizens to carry harm things? The ones who will use a gun to commit a crime will regardless what the law is. This will only allow more honest citizens to carry without paying and jumping thru govt hoops.

My opinion that trying to pass unlicensed, no permit open and cc would be detrimental to our best interests and would be doomed to failure has nothing whatsoever to do with your statement above or my feelings on those topics. As I've explained, I feel such an attempt would create opposition of massive scale and force many of the political alliances forged in recent years to run for cover from the backlash. This sentiment has nothing to do with who will or won't obey laws or commit crimes.

 

[Bulldawg182]

all states west of Texas permit unlicensed OC in some form

Yep, we've had disagreement on this map in the past and there's plenty of misleading "colors" on it. Take California as one of the prime examples. Just what "form" of unlicensed carry do they "allow"? This is not the only example.

Here's a list of the largest metropolitan areas in the US....and yes, I'd grant that Phoenix is a good example for your side of this discussion but Las Vegas and/or Seattle do NOT allow open or CC without a permit and are not relevant. Please review the table on this page and discuss any other major cities or metro areas you might see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas#Table

 

[Bulldawg182]

AV8R, take your "freedom loving crazy" BS somewhere else.....and take your little :lol: crap with it. You're no friend of mine and certainly not someone making cute talk with your little smilies so save your sarcastic BS for some one who'll fall for it......try your dog or maybe your wife.

It was a not a :lol: - But, right now I am most certainly :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yep....I understand. As the saying goes, don't waste your time wrestling with a pig in the mud....you'll just get $#$% all over you and the pig enjoys it!"

Enjoy yourself with your verbal masturbation!!

 

[Bulldawg182]

For those of you accepting of a permit to exercise your fundamental 2A rights, would you accept a permit system from the state to.......

It's not a question of "accepting" anything. You accept having to pay unreasonable taxes, being body scanned at the airports, buying permits & licenses to open a business, paying social security, buying insurance for your cars and a whole host of other violations of your rights.

All I'm saying is that once in force, the odds of reversing these rights violations almost always prove to be highly unlikely if not impossible. Moreover, the entire population is in agreement with reversing the examples above and they still can't be changed. He vast majority of our population could either care less about gun permits or is opposed to them.....as is the media. Organizations have been and continue to be successful from time to time in "tweaking" these things to make them more acceptable, but eradicating the permit requirements in entirety would be as easy as doing away with paying taxes in my opinion.

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;: Courage to change the things I can;: And wisdom to know the difference."[/b]

 

[Bulldawg182]

Didn't they say that about public gatherings? Carry in restaurants that serve alcohol? The whole not even worth trying mentality is pathetic. Attitudes like yours are what's really holding back progress in making our gun laws less restrictive.

No....not at all. I never said that and I never implied that. In fact, if you go back and read my post again, you'll see:
Bulldawg said:

Organizations have been and continue to be successful from time to time in "tweaking" these things to make them more acceptable, but eradicating the permit requirements in entirety would be as easy as doing away with paying taxes in my opinion.

Our accomplishments to date, which I have been an active part of, are "tweaking" as described plainly for anyone with reading skills to see.

AV8R.....you can continue to perform linguistic diarrhea or you can ask anyone at GCO who was sitting next to them at almost all the government hearings over the last 4 years supporting and lobbying for the changes you point out above. Maybe you weren't there.... but I was!

I disagree vehemently with any movement to abolish the permit and to promote open and concealed carry without one. You can take that any way you wish.....your opinion means less to me than bird poop I might step in from time to time.

 

[Bulldawg182]

45 fan,

Don't know how you missed this, but go back a couple of posts and read mine again. Mine said:

I'd grant that Phoenix is a good example for your side of this discussion but Las Vegas and/or Seattle do NOT allow open or CC without a permit and are not relevant.

Your reply was:

Unlicensed open carry is allowed in Las Vegas and Seattle. If you disagree, post the relevant laws that would make unlicensed open carry illegal in either location.

Surely you can see the difference in my statement and your rebuttal......which was totally irrelevant to mine.

If you can openly carry a handgun and ammo in public without a license, that qualifies as unlicensed OC. California does in fact allow something that Georgia does not.

As for California and their open carry laws........PLEASE......don't insult everyone's intelligence. You cannot carry openly in California and any attempt to state a contrary opinion can only be viewed as an intentional attempt to deceive the reader.

 

[Bulldawg182]

Guys,

Look....you can support and actively lobby for whatever you want. You can believe whatever you choose to believe. You can throw all the crap you want at someone who disagrees with you in attempts to ridicule or belittle any opinions that might differ from yours.

What you can't do, at least within the realm of rational thought, is to change history. I have been an active and supportive member of everything we've accomplished to date.....probably much more so than most of you throwing out the "you're not a true believer" BS. I've done everything asked and more in support of everything we've accomplished to date....probably more than most of you.

But, I do not support any effort to eradicate the permit system in lieu of unlicensed open and concealed carry here in Georgia. As much as you might disagree, I respect your right to your opinions, however different they might be. Some of you, however, seem to lack the same ability to respect the right of someone who might disagree with yours.

So be it, and best of luck! When the day comes that you're successful in doing the above, be sure to come back to this thread and tell me how wrong I was. Until then, follow your own hearts and minds in pursuit of what you want and learn to respect the fact that just because someone disagrees with you, they're not necessarily the enemy or deserving of ridicule. If you can't muster the intellectual honesty to do this, I have no need for your acquaintance.

 

[Bulldawg182]

Lets see here....

GCO hasn't said anything about this issue and one member is gone.

And another member is calling out others that didn't go to almost all committee meetings for 4 years.

A real winner of a thread.

Sorry, but I don't think I called anyone out. I responded to one person who accused me of being a part of the reason our gun laws aren't less restrictive, not having been supportive of abolishing public gatherings, earning the right to carry in restaurants that serve alcohol and of having a "not worth trying" attitude.

Sorry if you felt this was calling out others.....it wasn't at all meant that way.