Interesting thread. I live in Cochran and Middle Ga College straddles the main highway from Cochran to Eastman and I have to drive between a campus parking lot and the campus to get to town. Also the Wendy's is within 1000ft of the campus. Do I have to quit Wendy's and find another way out of town.
Carrying through 1000 ft school zone
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No. If you have a GWL you are covered to be within 1000' of a school in Georgia.
Also, the federal school zone law does not apply to colleges or universities.
Also, the federal school zone law does not apply to colleges or universities.
Thanks Phil1979, I do have a GWL. But it brings up where do folks stand who don't in these situations. Obviously they can't carry into Wendy's but they can legally have a firearm in their car, in the drive thru and still fall foul of this law. It seems to me that it's another of those feel good laws that are ill-conceived.
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Your analysis is correct. Without so many elementary and high schools dotting the landscape, many people are unconvicted felons without realizing it.
What makes me so angry is that the law was originally struck down by the Supreme Court, then the Clinton administration added interstate commerce language to it and brought that corpse back to life again somehow.
I wish the Supreme Court would strike it down again.
What makes me so angry is that the law was originally struck down by the Supreme Court, then the Clinton administration added interstate commerce language to it and brought that corpse back to life again somehow.
I wish the Supreme Court would strike it down again.
Somebody probably has to be charged first, and that is not a very common federal charge.
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yep
I was stopped for speeding through a school zone one time.
I was pulled over right next to the school, and I stopped in the turning lane approaching the school's driveway (it was a public school, middle or elementary).
The cop asked for my proof of insurance.
This is during a period of time a dozen years ago when there WAS a 1000-foot "zone" around all school property in Georgia's law too. This was after the federal school zone law was in place. And this is before our insurance status was checkable by the police themselves on their in-car computers.
I disclosed to the officer that my insurance card was in my glove box right under my pistol.
He said, "Well, get the insurance card carefully and leave the gun alone."
He didn't ask if I had a GFL. (I wouldn't need one to carry in my own car in the glove box, but I would and did need one to be technically legal within the school zone).
The point is, this cop was totally unconcerned with any school zone weapons law. He was doing traffic enforcement and looking for bad guys, and I wasn't a bad guy. I was just a speeder.
I was stopped for speeding through a school zone one time.
I was pulled over right next to the school, and I stopped in the turning lane approaching the school's driveway (it was a public school, middle or elementary).
The cop asked for my proof of insurance.
This is during a period of time a dozen years ago when there WAS a 1000-foot "zone" around all school property in Georgia's law too. This was after the federal school zone law was in place. And this is before our insurance status was checkable by the police themselves on their in-car computers.
I disclosed to the officer that my insurance card was in my glove box right under my pistol.
He said, "Well, get the insurance card carefully and leave the gun alone."
He didn't ask if I had a GFL. (I wouldn't need one to carry in my own car in the glove box, but I would and did need one to be technically legal within the school zone).
The point is, this cop was totally unconcerned with any school zone weapons law. He was doing traffic enforcement and looking for bad guys, and I wasn't a bad guy. I was just a speeder.
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I have to drive through a Tennessee school zone everyday on the way to work. There is a CVS with a Redbox just across the street from the school; if I get out of the car to use it, I think I would be in violation of the federal 1000 ft school zone stupidity. Have you ever looked at the 1000 ft zone on Google maps? It's unbelievable that the law was ever passed.
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If Clinton was involved, I can believe it. By and large, this is what Democrats want to do to us, and worse.
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If you have a GWL, you are exempt from the FGFSZ. TN's recognition of your GWL "counts" as a license issued by TN to you. After all, a "license" is a right to do something, usually one given by the state. TN has "given" you the right to carry, so it counts.
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John, I truly hope you are right. However...
This doesn't appear to be the granting of a right, but the granting of an actual license by that state.
When I carry in Tennessee for example with my GWL, have the authorities verified that I as an individual have received something that grants me the right to carry there?
"(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;"
This doesn't appear to be the granting of a right, but the granting of an actual license by that state.
When I carry in Tennessee for example with my GWL, have the authorities verified that I as an individual have received something that grants me the right to carry there?
"(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;"
"Receive the license" is the same as the granting of the right. It's the state verification that is the real sticking point. The ATF takes the position against me (i.e., the one you are concerned about), but I'm pretty sure it has never been litigated.
Here's my explanation: I don't think it can seriously be argued that TN's reciprocity with GA constitutes TN "issuing" you a license. TN is giving you a right you would not otherwise have. That's what a license is. I know it's counterintuitive and somewhat conflicting with the shorthand of referring to the plastic card in your pocket as a "license," but all that really is is evidence or documentation of a license. A license is, in technical parlance, an intangible. It's existence is evidenced by something that also is called a "license."
So the only question is whether TN verified that you are eligible for a license. The 11th Circuit has said that the state's law is the only one that matters when making that determination. That means if TN has determined, under TN law, that you are eligible for the license you have (the intangible reciprocal license), then you should be okay. Under TN law, you are eligible if you have a GWL. That may sound circular, but the GFSZ Act is not well written. And ambiguities in criminal law have to be construed against the government.
The bottom line is that millions of people commit this felony every day, under the ATF's interpretation. The federal government tends to reserve its prosecutorial power to those who have other issues (e.g., felon in possession). Otherwise, they could hire every lawyer in the country as assistant U.S. Attorneys and keep every district court busy for years prosecuting everyone.
Here's my explanation: I don't think it can seriously be argued that TN's reciprocity with GA constitutes TN "issuing" you a license. TN is giving you a right you would not otherwise have. That's what a license is. I know it's counterintuitive and somewhat conflicting with the shorthand of referring to the plastic card in your pocket as a "license," but all that really is is evidence or documentation of a license. A license is, in technical parlance, an intangible. It's existence is evidenced by something that also is called a "license."
So the only question is whether TN verified that you are eligible for a license. The 11th Circuit has said that the state's law is the only one that matters when making that determination. That means if TN has determined, under TN law, that you are eligible for the license you have (the intangible reciprocal license), then you should be okay. Under TN law, you are eligible if you have a GWL. That may sound circular, but the GFSZ Act is not well written. And ambiguities in criminal law have to be construed against the government.
The bottom line is that millions of people commit this felony every day, under the ATF's interpretation. The federal government tends to reserve its prosecutorial power to those who have other issues (e.g., felon in possession). Otherwise, they could hire every lawyer in the country as assistant U.S. Attorneys and keep every district court busy for years prosecuting everyone.
Good plan
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