Carrying through 1000 ft school zone
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I was a police officer when I went back to school, so I carried with impunity. Laws are for the little people.ber950 said:This law made me nuts. :x I went back to school at 35. My choice was commit a felony or go to work in the west end unarmed.
:lol:
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Re-read the law. you were supposed to lock it in your car if you were off duty.
I went to school with police officers. They were funny looking with the empty holsters. How stupid a law can you get. Here is my empty holster my gun must be locked in the car.
I went to school with police officers. They were funny looking with the empty holsters. How stupid a law can you get. Here is my empty holster my gun must be locked in the car.
Look how fast you can become one of the little people!
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ber950, that is like claiming that speeding laws apply to law enforcement. Ha! Speeding laws are just for you little people, too.
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In all seriousness, though, you gotta read further.
OCGA 16-11-130.
(a) Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to or affect any of the following persons if such persons are employed in the offices listed below . . .
(1) Peace officers . . .
and as if that were not enough, later:
(c) Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to or affect any:
(4) Police officer of any county, municipal, state, state authority, or federal law enforcement agency in the State of Georgia, including any college or university police officer that is registered or certified by the Georgia Peace Officer Standards and Training Council . . . or other law enforcement officer referred to in this subsection shall be authorized to carry a pistol or revolver on or off duty anywhere within the state and the provisions of Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to the carrying of such firearms.
OCGA 16-11-130.
(a) Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to or affect any of the following persons if such persons are employed in the offices listed below . . .
(1) Peace officers . . .
and as if that were not enough, later:
(c) Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to or affect any:
(4) Police officer of any county, municipal, state, state authority, or federal law enforcement agency in the State of Georgia, including any college or university police officer that is registered or certified by the Georgia Peace Officer Standards and Training Council . . . or other law enforcement officer referred to in this subsection shall be authorized to carry a pistol or revolver on or off duty anywhere within the state and the provisions of Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-128 shall not apply to the carrying of such firearms.
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Ya would almost think the legislators didn't know what they were doing, wouldn't ya?
:wink:
:wink:
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Cops at Schools
There are two reasons for thinking that the "no guns on school property" rule applies to off-duty cops, probation and parole officers, district attorneys, etc.
First, in interpreting laws the specific usually controls over the general. 16-11-130 gives a general blanket exception for public safety personnel from all the gun laws found in the preceding several sections. But the Gun Free School law has IT's OWN LIST OF EXEMPTIONS from that specific Code section and subsection, and it only exempts on-duty officers.
Secondly, there is a rule of statutory construction that says newer laws control over older laws, and that they implicitly repeal all conflicting provisions of the older laws, if the new and old ones cannot be read in harmony. The old law says cops can carry in public places, on or off duty. The new law says that off-duty cops cannot carry on school property. Therefore if there is a conflict, 16-11-127.1 must control, because it is the more recent proclamation from the legislature.
However, I don't think the INTENT OF THE LEGISLATURE was really to make the list of exempted persons in section 127.1 narrower and less inclusive than the list of people who are generally exempted from most of the gun control laws found between 124 and 129. I think they intended to just repeat the same list of exemptions, and happened to get it wrong. The legislature makes a lot of mistakes.
There are two reasons for thinking that the "no guns on school property" rule applies to off-duty cops, probation and parole officers, district attorneys, etc.
First, in interpreting laws the specific usually controls over the general. 16-11-130 gives a general blanket exception for public safety personnel from all the gun laws found in the preceding several sections. But the Gun Free School law has IT's OWN LIST OF EXEMPTIONS from that specific Code section and subsection, and it only exempts on-duty officers.
Secondly, there is a rule of statutory construction that says newer laws control over older laws, and that they implicitly repeal all conflicting provisions of the older laws, if the new and old ones cannot be read in harmony. The old law says cops can carry in public places, on or off duty. The new law says that off-duty cops cannot carry on school property. Therefore if there is a conflict, 16-11-127.1 must control, because it is the more recent proclamation from the legislature.
However, I don't think the INTENT OF THE LEGISLATURE was really to make the list of exempted persons in section 127.1 narrower and less inclusive than the list of people who are generally exempted from most of the gun control laws found between 124 and 129. I think they intended to just repeat the same list of exemptions, and happened to get it wrong. The legislature makes a lot of mistakes.
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Re: Bad Law
Oh, right. First someone would have to arrest an off-duty cop carrying in a school zone. Nope, there is no case law.ber950 said:
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Re: Bad Law
That'll never happen :roll:Malum Prohibitum said:
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That is about as likely as a police officer getting a ticket for driving his patrol car by himself in the HOV lane.
Hypocrisy. :roll:
Hypocrisy. :roll:
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Re: Whole Law
A box cutter is a weapon under the statute. In re A.M., 248 Ga. App. 241 (2001).
An arts and crafts knife, described as "like a box cutter," is not. In re R.B.W., 269 Ga. 452 (1998).
The delinquency petition describes the knife simply as "an art or craft knife." The factual stipulation states that the knife has "a long, narrow, cylinder-like handle with a blade at the end that is less than 3 inches long. The blade is similar to the type of blade that exists upon a box cutter or an exacto [sic] knife." OCGA § 16-11-127.1(a)(2) defines a knife to be a weapon within the meaning of the statute if it is a "dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, [or] any other knife having a blade of three or more inches." [FN1] There is no evidence that this art knife falls into any of those categories except that of "other knife." As it is stipulated that the knife's blade is under three inches, it does not meet the definition of a "knife having a blade of three or more inches," and possessing such a knife is not proscribed under OCGA § 16-11-127.1(a)(2). Accordingly, it was error to adjudicate the juvenile delinquent based on possession of this knife.
My comment: the difference appears to be that the state did not argue that this was a "straight edge razor," a specifically listed item, but a knife. The court was holding that it was not a knife but was not commenting upon whether it might be a straight edge razor.
A small plastic container with three razor blades inside is not a weapon under the statute; It is a tool. In the Interest of R.F.T., 228 Ga. App. 719 (1997) ("Simply as a matter of common sense, the blade that goes into a razor is not the razor, itself.").
A retractable razor blade utility knife which was removed from the defendant at school could fall within the definition. In the Interest of L.N.M., 222 Ga.App. 589, 474 S.E.2d 762 (1996).
A private school can terminate an employee's contract for having a gun locked in his car under a provision allowing termination for any violation of the law. Odem v. Pace Academy, 235 Ga. App. 648 (1998). The solution to that one is not to make comments to the effect of : "Odem testified on deposition that he never made any threats to the school, but merely said that he understood how events involving postal workers shooting fellow employees could happen." Kind of gets people worried, you know?
Additionally, Odem admitted to keeping a gun in his car when he came to school. Georgia law makes it a felony to carry or possess or have under one's control a weapon on school property. OCGA § 16-11-127.1. Thus, when Odem admitted that he kept a gun in his car every day, he admitted that he violated the law. Because Odem's contract gave Pace the right to annul the contract for the violation of any law, this behavior alone provided Pace a ground for terminating Odem.
Sure. Nothing you would be interested in.ber950 said:
A box cutter is a weapon under the statute. In re A.M., 248 Ga. App. 241 (2001).
An arts and crafts knife, described as "like a box cutter," is not. In re R.B.W., 269 Ga. 452 (1998).
The delinquency petition describes the knife simply as "an art or craft knife." The factual stipulation states that the knife has "a long, narrow, cylinder-like handle with a blade at the end that is less than 3 inches long. The blade is similar to the type of blade that exists upon a box cutter or an exacto [sic] knife." OCGA § 16-11-127.1(a)(2) defines a knife to be a weapon within the meaning of the statute if it is a "dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, [or] any other knife having a blade of three or more inches." [FN1] There is no evidence that this art knife falls into any of those categories except that of "other knife." As it is stipulated that the knife's blade is under three inches, it does not meet the definition of a "knife having a blade of three or more inches," and possessing such a knife is not proscribed under OCGA § 16-11-127.1(a)(2). Accordingly, it was error to adjudicate the juvenile delinquent based on possession of this knife.
My comment: the difference appears to be that the state did not argue that this was a "straight edge razor," a specifically listed item, but a knife. The court was holding that it was not a knife but was not commenting upon whether it might be a straight edge razor.
A small plastic container with three razor blades inside is not a weapon under the statute; It is a tool. In the Interest of R.F.T., 228 Ga. App. 719 (1997) ("Simply as a matter of common sense, the blade that goes into a razor is not the razor, itself.").
A retractable razor blade utility knife which was removed from the defendant at school could fall within the definition. In the Interest of L.N.M., 222 Ga.App. 589, 474 S.E.2d 762 (1996).
A private school can terminate an employee's contract for having a gun locked in his car under a provision allowing termination for any violation of the law. Odem v. Pace Academy, 235 Ga. App. 648 (1998). The solution to that one is not to make comments to the effect of : "Odem testified on deposition that he never made any threats to the school, but merely said that he understood how events involving postal workers shooting fellow employees could happen." Kind of gets people worried, you know?
Additionally, Odem admitted to keeping a gun in his car when he came to school. Georgia law makes it a felony to carry or possess or have under one's control a weapon on school property. OCGA § 16-11-127.1. Thus, when Odem admitted that he kept a gun in his car every day, he admitted that he violated the law. Because Odem's contract gave Pace the right to annul the contract for the violation of any law, this behavior alone provided Pace a ground for terminating Odem.
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Well, Jason, did we answer your original question?
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For context, (c)(17) addresses:
Teachers and other school personnel who are otherwise authorized to possess or carry weapons, provided that any such weapon is in a locked compartment of a motor vehicle or one which is in a locked container in or a locked firearms rack which is on a motor vehicle.
The facts of the case not quoted above say:
"Around this time, the school also received a report that Odem kept a gun in his unlocked truck while it was parked at school. This report, from a carpenter who was helping with Carousel, indicated that the gun was lying in Odem's truck on the front seat under some magazines. The carpenter also reported that Odem had made a comment during production to the effect that he sometimes felt like a postal worker and he could just go in and blow everyone away."
Teachers and other school personnel who are otherwise authorized to possess or carry weapons, provided that any such weapon is in a locked compartment of a motor vehicle or one which is in a locked container in or a locked firearms rack which is on a motor vehicle.
The facts of the case not quoted above say:
"Around this time, the school also received a report that Odem kept a gun in his unlocked truck while it was parked at school. This report, from a carpenter who was helping with Carousel, indicated that the gun was lying in Odem's truck on the front seat under some magazines. The carpenter also reported that Odem had made a comment during production to the effect that he sometimes felt like a postal worker and he could just go in and blow everyone away."
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You're welcome.
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