[Claire]

thought some might be interested in the debate going on on the GON forum

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=141849

 

[blind_shake]

It's a very interesting topic and some of those people on there don't know what they are talking about. Some of the comments to me are famous last words such as, " I never felt the need" or "I never saw a anything ever happen at a church where I needed one".
In fact, in the bible tells of some of the early churchs had armed guards and locked the doors.
Some of the people had it right on, terrorists would love to kill a group of Jesus lovin' infidels. That would be a prime target. People never imagined that teachers would need guns in schools but in Oregon they are debating that very thing in court right now. We shouldn't need to have guns in a church, in a perfect world. Heck if that were the case we wouldn't need guns at all. But we don't so I would rather see 2 trusted deacons strapped with AR15s guarding the front door.

 

[ptsmith24]

Wow...seemed to be going OK until I got to a few of the posts. Should post and ask if they should just wait until they're broken into until they start keeping a gun on their nightstand.

 

[ptsmith24]

I don't want everyone carrying at church, just enough so that a bad actor always has to wonder.

Where's the logic in that? How do you choose who carries and who doesn't? :?

 

[blind_shake]

A bonus would be that the sermons would be shorter,lol. Nothing like a congregation with an itchy trigger finger. :lol:

"Please remove you pistol from the top of your bibles and turn to Acts 3:12."

 

[VolGrad]

"Please remove you pistol from the top of your bibles and turn to Acts 3:12."

:rotfl2: Classic. Another new favorite quote.

 

[Claire]

+1

someone should use that in their sig :lol:

"Please remove you pistol from the top of your bibles and turn to Acts 3:12."

:rotfl2: Classic. Another new favorite quote.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Posted a few comments.

 

[Axeman]

Some folks get it and some just don't.

Everytime my wife used to give me the "I don't think we need to worry about packin' going to place x, or you don't need one here at place Y". I give my auto response of:

1. That's great so for the next few months, I am going to cancel our health insurance, because I don't think we will need it until then.

2. Cancel our fire insurance cause I feel we are safe from fires right now.

3. I don't think I am going to wear my seat belt when we are driving this week cause I don't think I will need it.

4. Then I will also put the first aid kit, and fire extenguisher in long term storage for now until we think we may need them.

She has finally stopped saying that to me anymore. :wink:

Maybe its just me, but if I ever feel the need to pack iron into my church, then maybe its time to find a new church. Pro'lly no secret here, but I'm a LEO.

Not every has this choice, and sometimes you gotta stand up for what is right and fight against forces that want to take over. Eventually I don't think you will be able to go even to Maybury, and not have to look over your shoulder.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/200 ... 3405008082

I'm looking at an order that was published in the August 30, 1794 Centinel of the North-West Territory (a Cincinnati, Ohio newspaper). It's an order for all members of the militia to be armed when attending church . . .:

[quote:2lr44l9s]The practice of assembling for public worship without arms may be attended with most sedlicious and melancholy consequences--it presents to an enemy of the smallest degree of enterprize to effect each fatal impression upon our infant settlements as posterity might long in vain lament.

[/quote:2lr44l9s]

 

[shamalama]

I can't say that I carry in church because that would be self-incrimination.

But I can say that pocket carry does provide untold benefits.

And, for what it's worth, I'm the part-time layman Choir Director for our little congregation.

Goblins come into churches just like they prefer all other Gun Free Zones. Easier victims, hostages, and kills.

 

[Axeman]

I wonder what would happen if the worship leader says raise your arms to God. :wink:

Some of us may get that wrong. :-k

 

[Purge]

I wonder what would happen if the worship leader says raise your arms to God. :wink:

Some of us may get that wrong. :-k

How about, make a joyful noise. :righton:

 

[asbrand]

Or, as I like to say to those who claim "I never felt the need" or "I live in a safe place..."

"Graveyards are full of those who thought they would never be shot, stabbed, strangled, raped or beaten. I'm sure it came as quite the surprise at the end of their shortened lives..."

I'm always amused how the loudest anti-gunners are the first to express total surprise when Bad Things (tm) happen to them.

 

[VolGrad]

And, for what it's worth, I'm the part-time layman Choir Director for our little congregation.

Goblins come into churches just like they prefer all other Gun Free Zones. Easier victims, hostages, and kills.

I agree with your comment about the goblins. In fact, churches are usually good targets as their members are more likely to give a visitor/trespasser the benefit of doubt about their intentions and offer aid.

Gather round friends, let me share a story with you...

Last night over supper my in-laws shared a crazy story about an incident last week at their church. Let me set this up a little....

My father-in-law (FIL) was active duty Air Force during Vietnam, National Guard afterward until earlier this year when he retired. Mother-in-law (MIL) is not opposed to guns, just not "into them". Both are lay leaders in their church, choir members, etc., very involved to say the least. The church is a small, country Methodist church in a very quickly growing suburban area in East Tennessee.

Last Friday evening a memorial service was held at their church for a member of the community. He was not a member but someone knew someone, etc. and they requested permission to use the church. One of the older female church members agreed to be present. My in-laws decided to stop by the church to put the sermon title on the sign before heading out to supper. They arrived to find the church elderly church member frantic.

Apparently, they guy was a biker type and the attendees to the service were a rather rough crowd. He had a couple of ex-wives and kids by each. I won't get in to all the details (some of which were hilarious) but the evening was capped off by one of the adult sons repeatedly trying to sneak into parts of the church which were off-limits to the memorial service and eventually waving a large folding razor blade around, yelling, "I'm gonna kill the b!#ch." He was referring to a previous ex-wife of his father. He seemed to have every intention of following through with his threats and was physically restrained by other attendees for a short time.

My FIL called the sheriff's department and deputies soon arrived to calm the situation and disperse the crowd.

During this story my wife and I were hanging open-mouthed on every word. This is big news at a quiet, country church. We were married there back in 1998.

After the story concluded my wife says, "...and this is where you say (as she points to me and pauses)...". I finish her sentence with, "This is exactly why you should be allowed to carry guns in church." NOTE: both FIL and MIL nodded in agreement. My FIL carries a pistol in the car when traveling but not otherwise. My MIL is very "churchly" and I was shocked when she agreed you should be allowed to carry in church. She commented, "The way the world is these days, you just never know."

You hear stories about church shootings, etc. too frequently in the news. However, it is still a pretty abstract concept even for those of us who are "more aware" of potential dangers. I know this church, I know the members, I have taught Bible school there, I was married there, I have been to weddings & funerals there, I have been to family reunions there, I have even watched a TN vs FL football game there for crying out loud. It doesn't get much closer to home than that.

I did check the state maps of places off limits from the GCO website and was pleased to find you can carry a gun in places of worship in TN. Too bad we can't here.

Needless to say, the church is now reconsidering future requests for use of the facilities by anyone not a member of the church.

 

[Tinkerhell]

My wife & I moved into our new home abut a year ago. Last Sunday we finally got started on the process of trying out some of the churches that are close by the new house. The closest is only about a mile away. So we show up to this small Baptist church and find ourselves a seat. The whole thing was pleasant, though I was not overly fond of the preacher's particular style. He got to one part of his sermon, which was along the lines of not knowing what kind of trouble you might be in at any given time because the Lord watches out for & protects his children. Many times during this sermon I was thinking "yes God does watch out for us but he also expects us to watch out for ourselves". I would usually think that right about the time I need to adjust how my jacket was hanging...

Anyhow, he gets to one point & says something like -

"To show you what I mean, just a few weeks ago each of you were looked out for & most of you never knew it. We had someone that made threats against our church & some of its members. But even though you didn't know what dangerous waters you were in, you were protected. Some of your fellow brothers had stepped up & took steps to be sure we would all be safe no matter what happened"

It was quite clear that the preacher was saying some of the male folk in the congregation had been CC for several weeks due to whatever this threat was. I just smiled & thought to myself "Why did you need to wait till a threat presented itself. That's silly". Then I continued to smile smugly. And re-adjust my jacket as I stood up for each song. :wink:

 

[slabertooch]

My parents used to attend a small church in a rather rough part of Lexington Kentucky. 75% of the males at any given service CC'ed, and a few women did too. Kentucky law requires that the pastor or "officer of the church" sanctions the carrying of weapons at the church, so they actually had a group of men who were part of a security team. Most of them were police officers or federal officers, and they would sit near the doors. I don't think a single visitor ever realized that anyone was armed in that church.

 

[Boy Racer]

Needless to say, the church is now reconsidering future requests for use of the facilities by anyone not a member of the church.

That's too bad. One bad apple (or in this case, one group) ruins it for everyone else.

I feel, in this instance, no longer allowing non-members use of the facility in the future is akin to banning handguns for everyone because a small population occasionally mis-uses them.

Don't judge all men by the actions of a few. I'll bet the next group of non-members who use the church behave better. Try it, see what happens.

Of course, if I'm wrong, it's more than just egg on my face I guess. But I don't think I'm wrong.

 

[VolGrad]

Needless to say, the church is now reconsidering future requests for use of the facilities by anyone not a member of the church.

That's too bad. One bad apple (or in this case, one group) ruins it for everyone else.

I feel, in this instance, no longer allowing non-members use of the facility in the future is akin to banning handguns for everyone because a small population occasionally mis-uses them.

Don't judge all men by the actions of a few. I'll bet the next group of non-members who use the church behave better. Try it, see what happens.

Of course, if I'm wrong, it's more than just egg on my face I guess. But I don't think I'm wrong.

Not my decision. I am not a member and live 250+- miles away. ...but I agree with your logic.

 

[shamalama]

I feel, in this instance, no longer allowing non-members use of the facility in the future is akin to banning handguns for everyone because a small population occasionally mis-uses them.

Agreed. You are punishing those without blame. Surgery via machete. A more correct solution lies in another direction entirely.

I'm sure there has to be some CCW'ers in the congregation. If they could be quietly "encouraged" to "dress properly" for church service you might solve the problem.

Yes, in Georgia it is quite illegal to carry in a church. But I'd much rather spend a day in court while standing than one afternoon in a church while lying in a casket.