Can You Rely on Others?

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by Malum Prohibitum, Aug 25, 2007.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    From KOMO 4 in Seattle:
    ST. PAUL (AP) - A security video from an apartment hallway shows at least 10 witnesses ignored a woman's cries for help for more than an hour as a man beat and sexually assaulted her, prosecutors said Thursday.

    Police said they responded to a call of drunken behavior, where they found Rage Ibrahim, 26, and a woman lying unconscious in the hallway early Tuesday. The woman's clothing had been pulled up, she had fresh scratches on her face and blood on her thigh, according to the criminal complaint.

    Ibrahim says he is innocent and that the incident was a misunderstanding, according to Omar Jamal, the executive director of the Somali Justice Advocacy Center who spoke on Ibrahim's behalf.

    Police spokesman Tom Walsh said the surveillance video clearly showed men and women looking out their apartment doors or starting to walk down the hallway before retreating as the woman was assaulted for nearly 90 minutes.

    "It shows one person looking out of her door probably three times," Walsh said. "It shows another person walking up, observing what's going on, then turning and putting up the hood of his sweatshirt."

    At one point, the 26-year-old woman knocked on a door, yelling for the occupants to call police. A man inside that apartment told police he didn't open the door or look out, but said he did call police - although they have no record of his call, according to court documents.

    Police identified the attacker on the video as Ibrahim, 25, who was charged with several counts of first-degree criminal sexual conduct, prosecutors said.

    Ibrahim told police he did not assault the woman, saying if he wanted to do so he would have done it in the apartment, according to the criminal complaint.

    The woman had been visiting the apartment of a friend, where she met Ibrahim. After drinking for several hours, she told police Ibrahim tried to stop her from leaving, and began to assault her, according to the report.

    Walsh said police were shocked by the behavior of the bystanders.

    "If you're not comfortable, if you don't feel capable of intervening, that's fine," Walsh said. "But not calling is not understandable."

    Minnesota has a Good Samaritan law that makes it a petty misdemeanor not to give reasonable help to a person in danger of "grave physical harm."

    Walsh said it's unlikely police would pursue charges against witnesses in this case because the burden of proof is so high - authorities would have to show that witnesses knew the woman was in extreme danger.

    Jamal said Ibrahim went into the hallway after the woman because he thought she was too drunk to drive. They struggled over car keys, and "he is saying there was a huge misunderstanding," Jamal said, adding that the police report does not show "the truth of what happened that night."

    "He did not rape her," Jamal said.
     
  2. ptsmith24

    ptsmith24 New Member

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    Yea, I don't think there should be a law governing "good behavior". However, that doesn't mean I think people shouldn't help others. Government intrusion shouldn't be necessary.

    Seems like a good example of the Bystander Effect.
     

  3. Thorsen

    Thorsen New Member

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    These people sicken me. I can not even conceive of not attempting to help someone in distress.
     
  4. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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  5. Brian618

    Brian618 New Member

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    I sincerely hope those that did not attempt to assist this poor woman are kept awake at night by their failure to act. Thanks God she wasn't killed.
     
  6. merlock

    merlock New Member

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    +1, although I'm willing to bet that they sleep just fine, thanks. :evil:

    These are the same types that will wet their pants when they see me OCing! :roll:
     
  7. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    +1
    People are not ashamed to be cowards anymore.
     
  8. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    I know one friend I can count on. He only weighs about 30oz though.
     
  9. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    So can you rely on others?

    I was about to slip into bed about 70 minutes ago when I hear a woman scream outside in the parking lot of my apartment complex. I grab my Hk, Surefire and cell phone from my bedside table and run out the front door.

    In the parking lot is a white male standing outside of a car on the passenger side. There is a white female in the driver side; she has the vehicle parked in the middle of the road.

    I had my Hk in hand but had it hidden behind me.

    More yelling starts.

    Then the male lunges inside and grabs the female by the throat and lets her go after about a second. I dial 911 and tell them the who/what/where and they get my name and number.

    Now, I know that I should not jump into the middle of a DV situation since nine times out of ten the guy "never" touches the girl and anyone trying to help turns into the bad guy. So I opted to stay watching unless things got really violent.

    I gotta commend the Statesboro and University Police for their response time; from the time my call ended to the time they were on scene was about four minutes, if that. I see the police drive into the complex and blip my surefire at them three times then highlight the couple's car. When they see the police roll up he jumps in the car like nothing happened and they start driving. Two patrol cars roll up and stop them. They get the male out of the car and separate him. By the time he is taken out of the car there are five other Statesboro and UP patrol cars on scene.

    They breathalize the female and she is under the limit apparently. Officers talk to the female for a few minutes then let her go. Other officers talk to the male for about 15 more minutes.

    So, what happened is exactly what I thought would happen. Female says the guy never touched her and the police don't arrest anyone.

    When the police got on scene my roommate asked me why I didn't go down there and break it up and I explained what would probably happen. After it was all over I say "See..." He just nodded and said "yeah. it's a shame they didn't take him to jail though."

    But I'll tell ya, hearing that female scream woke me up real fast, and before I knew it I was outside with a gun, a light, and a phone.
    oh well. I am gonna try to get some sleep now.
     
  10. merlock

    merlock New Member

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    Ramm,

    +1E6 for caring enough to get involved!

    Excellent job; you couldn't have done anything better!

    =D> :righton: :cheers:
     
  11. ptsmith24

    ptsmith24 New Member

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    Good job, Ramm. A lot of happenings over there around your place lately, it seems.
     
  12. Thorsen

    Thorsen New Member

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    I don't think you could have handled it any better Ramm. Good job.
     
  13. VolGrad

    VolGrad Tactical Statistician

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    Ramm - I also want to commend you for going to check out the situation. It seemed you did the right thing. I wouldn't have gotten involved any further either unless he was actually causing physical harm to her. Calling the cops, signaling them to the perp, and being able to be a good witness - all at the same time observing the situation to make sure it did not escalate. Great job.

    As for the original story in this thread - I truly don't want to stir anything up here too bad but really do have to point out a thread recently in which several posters here stated they would not get involved in an altercation where there was physical injury occurring between strangers. The same folks said they might call the police but may not stick around to be a witness. What makes this story any different that everyone is now so appalled? Is it because it was a woman being raped? Is the difference that no one called police? While this is terrible, I would think a male victim being beaten badly by someone, more than one person, or with a weapon should bring about the same response by anyone of us. I don't want to be a cowboy but think I have a responsibility to help my neighbors when I can. I would expect the same response from them. I hope Ramm is around when I am getting my @$$ kicked by 2 thugs. Here is the thread I am referring to.

    http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/vie ... php?t=4927

    I know these aren't exactly the same scenarios but still should put us into action.
     
  14. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    So, Rammstein has progressed from open carry to carry in the hand.
     
  15. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Thanks VOLGRAD, smith, Thorsen and merlock.

    Yeah...carry in the hand works a little better when you might have to run down some stairs and point it at someone beating up his girl friend. ;)
     
  16. ptsmith24

    ptsmith24 New Member

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    Do you think he realized you're the one that called the cops when you were out front?
     
  17. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Possibly.

    Last night I was outside talking to my neighbor (who happens to be an University Police officer) and we were talking about guns and gun related topics. The guy pulls up in his truck and I point it out to my neighbor. We're both staring at the guy as he is walking to his apartment. Every few feet he looks up at us. When he gets into his apartment he look up at us and says "What the f-ck are you staring at?!" and slams the door.

    We just looked at each other and laughed because we were both armed.
     
  18. Bulldawg182

    Bulldawg182 Active Member

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    Nicely done, Ramm. That's why you're still my idol!!! :lol:

    Seriously, everything you did was picture perfect. From picking up the cell phone and dialing immediately while you prepared for the possibility of having to intercede by grabbing your weapon and light. Most of the time, a good scream of "HEY" and shining a light on the perp will make most end the confrontation and leave. Of course, there's always that one in 10 who just might seek to redirect his anger at you......which you were more than prepared for.
     
  19. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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  20. wsweeks2

    wsweeks2 New Member

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    No, we can't possibly be praising Ramm. He's just a college kid.

    :wink:

    Great job with how things were handled. I like the guy who asked what you were staring at too.