[chesterdawg]

Sooo,
I just returned from 9 days for mental health tx. My carry permit was good for 4+ yrs but I'm thinking my legal carry days are over.

Can I carry anything?
Can I keep my .17 HMR?
Can I keep my RWS 34 Stryker .22 pellet rifle?

Or does it all have to go?

Thanks

 

[Wegahe]

Voluntary or court ordered?

 

[gunsmoker]

Here's ATF's explanation of the federal law about guns for people with mental illness.

https://www.atf.gov/file/58791/download

Georgia's laws about losing your carry permit for a mental issue should be the same. However, Georgia has a method in place to potentially get your gun permit back, whereas the feds do not --at least as a matter of statutory law, although I think some federal district courts have ordered them to consider reinstatement of gun rights for some people whose mental issues were long ago.

 

[Craftsman]

I would pay a lawyer for a recommendation. I would also have a good friend or family member I could sell everything to for a dollar on short notice, just in case.

 

[chesterdawg]

Thanks Y'all. I figured it was black & white. I will check but it would be nice to keep 1 or 2 along with all my other freedoms.
I believe my ex called the LEOs. So is that a 1013? I'll ask about court ordered or voluntary. I remember them asking and I agreed, I wanted/needed help.

Keep it coming please

 

[gunsmoker]

A cop can detain you based his observations and limited brief assessment of the circumstances and taking testimony from other witnesses in the field.

He can transport you to a mental health facility thinking that when he gets there he will ask that a doctor do a form 1013 on you.

But only a doctor social worker or other mental health professional can do a form 1013, not some cop.

Did a mental health professional evaluate you and sign the form 1013 , thus finding that at that time (that hour) you needed medical / mental health intervention and that it was appropriate for the cops to bring you in?

 

[chesterdawg]

I will check into that. I only heard the others mention 1013. If I was 1013, is it time to sell?
Thanks

 

[gunsmoker]

I don't know, offhand, if ONE mental health worker's determination that you were crazy and dangerous and needed to be locked up (Form 1013) is enough to trigger the federal gun ban, which would not only invalidate your carry permit but it would make you a "prohibited person" who cannot possess any firearms or ammunition.

The actual federal law passed by Congress talks about adjudications by boards or commissions or other entities made up of multiple individuals. I don't know if one low-level mental health worker with a PhD or Master's degree is such an entity.

The federal law also has due process problems that make me think it could be challenged, even if it appears to apply to your situation. That federal law doesn't say that the board, commission, or other entity that declared you to be insane had to make their findings according to any certain standard of evidence. It doesn't say, although it might imply, that generally excepted standards of risk assessment have to be used, or that the APA's diagnostic criteria shall be followed. The federal law doesn't say that they had to give you notice and an opportunity to be heard; it doesn't say that you had to have an opportunity to contest the allegations and offer conflicting evidence.


If you think this federal disqualifying law might apply to you and gun rights are important to you, you should probably hire a lawyer --and expect to pay for it ---and get real legal advice that is the product of specific research focused on your circumstances.

 

[gunsmoker]

About that STATE CARRY LICENSE aspect of your original question:

I was wrong to say the federal standard is the same as the Georgia standard for eligibility to get or keep your carry license. There are actually 3 different ways related to mental health by which you can become ineligible to get (or keep) a Georgia carry weapons license.

Two of the ways are mirror images of the federal law and one actually incorporates & cites the federal prohibited person list from the U.S. Code, section 922, as being a Georgia disqualifying condition also.

But Georgia has added a broader catchall mental health disqualifying situation, and it's just based on being put in a mental hospital as an inpatient, whether you got there in a voluntary or involuntary process.

Quote: [No weapons carry license shall be issued to or renewed for]
"any person who has been hospitalized as an inpatient in any mental hospital or alcohol or drug treatment center within the five years immediately preceding the application."

Despite the firm language of "no license shall be issued" the statute actually goes on to say that is all up to the judge. The Probate Court judge has full discretion to issue or deny the permit based on all the facts and circumstances of your problem, and the treatment given, and your most recent behavior post-treatment.

P.S. Despite the language here that talks about not "issuing" a permit or not "renewing" a permit, other subsections within 16-11-129 say that if anything happens during the time that you hold the permit ( 5 yrs.) that would impair you from renewing it, the court could revoke it before the renewal time even comes up. So any legal grounds for not renewing your license would also be sufficient legal grounds to revoke your current license as soon as the Probate court finds out about it.

 

[gunsmoker]

As for how the law views different kinds of guns:


If your mental problem triggered a federal "prohibited person" classification, then you cannot own any modern firearm in any caliber or any fixed ammunition. Not a single cartirdge. Not even at home, not even securely locked in a safe (at least not any safe that you have the key or combination to!) The federal laws for prohibited persons do not apply to black powder firearms that do not use fixed ammunition (cartridges). Muzzle- loading rifles or shotguns, and black powder cap and ball revolvers, circa 1850s, would still be legal.
Airguns are not considered firearms for the purposes of any federal gun control laws. So the pellet gun is kosher for Uncle Sam.


If you are not a federal prohibited person, but yet your circumstances did trigger a revocation of your Georgia weapons carry license, then you might consider what type of weapons that you could own but not carry, or what type of weapons that you could carry because they do not require a carry permit! In other words, in plain English, consider that are some weapons that don't meet the statutory definition of a "weapon" under code section 16-11- 125.1
.

A handgun in 17 rimfire caliber, which fires a projectile that is only 4.4 mm wide, should be legal to carry without a GWL. Because the law on "weapons" exempts handguns that fire a single shot of a size less than .46 cm which is 4.6 mm.
I think the legislature meant only to allow BB and pellet guns that fire .177 caliber lead pellets or steel BBs. However, in their usual incompetence at drafting legislation, or understanding how guns work, the General Assembly instead gave us this crap law which apparently creates a loophole for .17 rimfire handguns.

 

[gunsmoker]

A handgun with a barrel over 12" isn't considered a weapon under Georgia's carry laws either.

There have been several modern-built revolvers, either double action style or a Single Action Army "Peacemaker" style, that have 12 inch barrels.

https://youtu.be/hPX48_AcEKM

And that's not counting of course the many semi automatic handguns that are really short versions of AR-15's and AK-47s with barrels of 12 inches or longer.

 

[mrhutch]

Your permit is good until they revoke it. Go about your business, start looking for legal counsel, and take no action until the state tells you to.

Hell, with the way the records reporting is, it could take years before it's ever reported, if at all.

You are not a prohibited person until they tell you you are. Don't volunteer to surrender access to your rights just because of "maybe".

 

[moe mensale]

I would also have a good friend or family member I could sell everything to for a dollar on short notice, just in case.

Do a preemptive strike and sell your firearms - and ammo - before any anticipated trouble starts. If things so south the new "owner" can sell them for you and pay you the proceeds. Have everything in writing.

Have a separate buy-back agreement also in writing. If things go in your favor you can then reacquire your weapons at a predetermined price.

The cops are not your weapons' legal guardian and will treat them as such.

 

[phantoms]

If you have a family member you can trust I would gift any firearms you have to them until the matter is cleared up. You can legally gift firearms as long as the person you gift them to can legally own them.

Otherwise you could be breaking the law and not only subject to losing your weapons but being arrested for possessing them.

Once they are gifted to a trusted family member, then do as others have suggested and follow upon your legal status.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.11

Here are the ATF's definitions from the Code of Federal Regulations.

 

[chesterdawg]

Turns out I went voluntarily though gently cuffed so I should be good to keep my firearms.
Most are going, I have too many.

Undiagnosed Bipolar will do that to ya. I'm selling them on theoutsidertrader.com or something like that.
A good friend listed them for me since they're not taking new customers????

I can't believe I was in healthcare for 25yrs suffering from bipolar and didn't know where to look for help. I thought life just sucked so I drank on top of the incorrect meds that were prescribed by a GP.

Go to a Psychiatrist and get yourself back on track. No need to waste decades of your life.
Ok that's it, I'm done here.
Time to saddle up and go for a ride!

Thanks everybody.

 

[moe mensale]

I'm selling them on theoutsidertrader.com or something like that.
A good friend listed them for me since they're not taking new customers????

What's that about? The ODT registration page is open and taking new registrations.

Glad to see this is working out in your favor.

 

[gunsmoker]

ODT no longer lets non-paying members place ads. You have to either pay $1 per ad, or $1 per month, or something like that.
Unless you're a sponsor / supporter, in which case you can post unlimited as for free.

 

[Darklock]

actually anyone can get three free listings per month

 

[moe mensale]

actually anyone can get three free listings per month

Yeah. Haven't been there in over a year. If anyone's interested here's a thread discussing their new setup.

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/threads/new-classifieds-options.1953662/