As long as it's your money and a gift with no expectation of compensation or reward, you're done. Buy, wrap (or not), and give. DO NOT mention that you are not the final owner in the gun store or you *may* get turned away as a potential straw purchase.
Buying a firearm from a FFL as a gift for someone else
So this week I will be buying a gun to gift to my father. He's mentioned for a few years a particular style gun he has wanted. He's not as into guns as I am but I know this particular kind he is quite interested in.
Anyways. I've never purchased a firearm for anyone other than myself.
I know it is legal for him to own one (he isn't prohibited). What is the legal process for me to buy the gun at the FFL and then gift to him?
I already know there's no registry. So do I just buy it as if it's for me and then just gift it? Or do I specify it's a gift. It's just not something I'm familiar with yet so I want to clear the air and not be accused of a straw purchase.
Thank you in advance.
Anyways. I've never purchased a firearm for anyone other than myself.
I know it is legal for him to own one (he isn't prohibited). What is the legal process for me to buy the gun at the FFL and then gift to him?
I already know there's no registry. So do I just buy it as if it's for me and then just gift it? Or do I specify it's a gift. It's just not something I'm familiar with yet so I want to clear the air and not be accused of a straw purchase.
Thank you in advance.
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It is perfectly legal to buy a firearm as a gift for your father. It is illegal to buy a gun for your father that is not a gift.
Thank you AtlPhilip and MP.
No Problemo! It is kind of nice to see a useful thread here spreading knowledge to somebody who needs it, instead of all the useless crap passing GPDO threads these days.
Pretty much this. It is perfectly legal, however I would not mention what it is for simply because you might get an ignorant FFL (and God knows there are plenty of them) who may not understand the law.As long as it's your money and a gift with no expectation of compensation or reward, you're done. Buy, wrap (or not), and give. DO NOT mention that you are not the final owner in the gun store or you *may* get turned away as a potential straw purchase.
Indeed I may not be as knowledgable as some but I've met my fair share of FFL who knew considerably less than me. Not to mention most of the people working the counter often muzzle sweep me, much to my delight I assure you ::banghead::Pretty much this. It is perfectly legal, however I would not mention what it is for simply because you might get an ignorant FFL (and God knows there are plenty of them) who may not understand the law.
Perfectly legal NOW.
Not so legal if "universal no fly background list loophole checks" happens.
Not so legal if "universal no fly background list loophole checks" happens.
Unable to discern a difference, the anti's call it the "gift show loophole".Malum Prohibitum said:It is perfectly legal to buy a firearm as a gift for your father. It is illegal to buy a gun for your father that is not a gift.
Remember, question 11.a is asking about YOU, the person buying the merchandise. The scope of the question is the purchase transaction itself, not whether you plan to do something with the purchase later. Are YOU buying this merchandise or are there other "silent partners" involved in the transaction?
For a legitimate gift, there is only you. It's the same as walking into any other store somewhere, buying something, and putting it on a closet shelf until Christmastime (for example). It's your property which you legally purchased. YOU bought it. Your "reasons" for the purchase aren't the concern of the store, only the legality of selling the merchandise to YOU.
For a straw purchase, there is not only you. There is someone else involved for whom you are acting as a "front man". You are performing the function of an "agent", which takes the transaction out of the realm of "private purchase".
(I think in theory, acting as an "agent" requires an FFL license)
IANAL
For a legitimate gift, there is only you. It's the same as walking into any other store somewhere, buying something, and putting it on a closet shelf until Christmastime (for example). It's your property which you legally purchased. YOU bought it. Your "reasons" for the purchase aren't the concern of the store, only the legality of selling the merchandise to YOU.
For a straw purchase, there is not only you. There is someone else involved for whom you are acting as a "front man". You are performing the function of an "agent", which takes the transaction out of the realm of "private purchase".
(I think in theory, acting as an "agent" requires an FFL license)
IANAL
Consider that case a few years back... I forget where it was, somewhere in NJ or MD maybe?
The nice police officer wanted to do something nice for his perfectly legal father-in-law. So the FIL gave him some money and the officer went and purchased a firearm using his police officer discount then delivered the firearm to his FIL and everyone was happy...
...until the nice police officer was arrested and charged with felonies for helping out his family.
He was acting as an "agent", not making a personal purchase (gift or otherwise).
The nice police officer wanted to do something nice for his perfectly legal father-in-law. So the FIL gave him some money and the officer went and purchased a firearm using his police officer discount then delivered the firearm to his FIL and everyone was happy...
...until the nice police officer was arrested and charged with felonies for helping out his family.
He was acting as an "agent", not making a personal purchase (gift or otherwise).
We already have to "get permission" to legally purchase a certain class of merchandise from a commercial dealer.Perfectly legal NOW.
The anti's also want us to "get permission" to give someone a gift.Not so legal if "universal no fly background list loophole checks" happens.
Keep in mind that NOTHING has changed regarding YOUR personal responsibility in gift giving. YOU still bear a responsibility regarding the suitability of the recipient (not a prohibited person).
As a side note... The anti's do not trust your "judgement" when it comes to relying on you to fulfill this responsibility. This is why they want you to "get permission" to give someone a gift... HOWEVER, the anti's are still perfectly willing to rely on you to COMPLY with the responsibility.Keep in mind that NOTHING has changed regarding YOUR personal responsibility in gift giving. YOU still bear a responsibility regarding the suitability of the recipient (not a prohibited person).
In other words, "Universal No Fly Background List Loophole Checks" only apply to the law abiding. They still haven't figured out how to get the terrorists and career armed robbers to comply.
That is as good an explanation of "straw purchase" vs. "gift" as I've read.Remember, question 11.a is asking about YOU, the person buying the merchandise. The scope of the question is the purchase transaction itself, not whether you plan to do something with the purchase later. Are YOU buying this merchandise or are there other "silent partners" involved in the transaction?
For a legitimate gift, there is only you. It's the same as walking into any other store somewhere, buying something, and putting it on a closet shelf until Christmastime (for example). It's your property which you legally purchased. YOU bought it. Your "reasons" for the purchase aren't the concern of the store, only the legality of selling the merchandise to YOU.
For a straw purchase, there is not only you. There is someone else involved for whom you are acting as a "front man". You are performing the function of an "agent", which takes the transaction out of the realm of "private purchase".
This thread got me thinking... Here's an odd twist (and one applicable to me).
My wife wants to buy me a gun (yay!). But i'm the sole breadwinner in the family and we have separate credit cards and bank accounts. So when her credit card comes due I transfer money from my account to hers and she pays the card. Is this then her buying it with my money and thus a straw purchase or would this be an exception since we're married? Would it depend on the state and their laws on property as it relates to marriages (in NV she had to sign to sell the house even though her name wasn't on the title for example). I know I could just say the gun is hers but anyone who knows us would know who's it really was. Am I just overthinking this at 6:45 in the morning with no coffee?
My wife wants to buy me a gun (yay!). But i'm the sole breadwinner in the family and we have separate credit cards and bank accounts. So when her credit card comes due I transfer money from my account to hers and she pays the card. Is this then her buying it with my money and thus a straw purchase or would this be an exception since we're married? Would it depend on the state and their laws on property as it relates to marriages (in NV she had to sign to sell the house even though her name wasn't on the title for example). I know I could just say the gun is hers but anyone who knows us would know who's it really was. Am I just overthinking this at 6:45 in the morning with no coffee?
Yes.Am I just overthinking this at 6:45 in the morning with no coffee?
:rotfl:
:lol:
I'd say there is nothing unusual about a husband writing the check for his wife's generous gift giving. How else is she supposed to afford it?
:lol:
If you want to make it really complicated, go to the same place and buy a gift for her too.
:lol:
I'd say there is nothing unusual about a husband writing the check for his wife's generous gift giving. How else is she supposed to afford it?
:lol:
If you want to make it really complicated, go to the same place and buy a gift for her too.
:lol:
Wings, if you normally pay for your wife's credit card purchases no matter what they are, even for things she bought without consulting you, this is not a problem.
If you ONLY reimbursed her for the gun, that could be a problem.
If you told her what to buy AND later paid her for it (only it), that would surely be a straw purchase in ATF's eyes.
If you ONLY reimbursed her for the gun, that could be a problem.
If you told her what to buy AND later paid her for it (only it), that would surely be a straw purchase in ATF's eyes.
If they ask, tell them the gun was a gift and the money was for sex. That's an entirely different department (the IRS) and they won't bother you anymore.If you told her what to buy AND later paid her for it (only it), that would surely be a straw purchase in ATF's eyes.
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
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