British Marine/Navy conduct in recent capture.

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by foshizzle, Apr 6, 2007.

  1. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    This has really... REALLY got me riled up lately. I think I have every reason to toss insults towards the 15 captured Brits... especially the officer.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,264500,00.html

    I blame the UK navy for not protecting their boarding party. These guys were taken hostage because either A) Their SOP for boarding vessels sucked or B) They ignored the SOP they had for boarding vessels.

    There should have been air/naval support close by. NO way the Iranians should have been able to get that close.

    .

    So what. They didn't lay a hand on you. You sold out your country based solely on allegations. If they started ripping out your fingernails, I might have some sympathy. It was 11 days!!! What would you do if the cops in the UK charged you with murder and said either confess or you go to jail for the rest of your life? You wouldn't confess, you would get a lawyer! 11 days!!

    Dignity? 4 days of solitary confinement was all it took for her to put on a burkha and suck up to the Iranian president?

    And this was the reason they caved? I guess that being blindfolded and kept in isolation for a few days, punctuated by sheer moments of terror where you shake hands with the Iranian pres, get gifts, eat meals or play chess with your buddies is enough to make you sell out your country.

    Maybe I'm just old and bitter but I know what are rules were in the Marines. You don't get captured if you can resist. Obviously, these guys were caught with their pants down. I blame the UK navy and their superiors, not them... but they were paraded like trophies and the only thing it took to get them to do so was a few days of isolation, being blindfolded and threats of jail. God, if I was captured by the Iranians I would hope to God they would at least break my face in half so I wouldn't go back to my unit looking like a baby!

    ARGH!!!! I'm so frustrated I can't STAND IT. They gave up so easy I (I know it's bad) hoped that the Iranians threatened to kill the woman or something if they didn't parade like nice captives. NO! Even official accounts the worst they did was blindfold them, make them change clothes and "cock guns around them". ALL OF THEM CAVED!!

    How the H could they stay together as a team if they were in solitary confinement? If they could stay together as a team, military discipline shouldn't have broken down so easily! 2 WEEKS! 2 WEEKS! OMG!!!!

    I know I'm overreacting. It's just. Ridiculous.
     
  2. ls1ssdavid

    ls1ssdavid New Member

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    Keep the faith, Deny aid and comfort and return home with honor. That is the mission of a POW/Hostage. But sometimes it's more than physical pressure that breaks you. Solitary confinement is worse than physical pain in some cases. You must put a price on everything. I agree they could have held out longer. But, the British do not have a Code of Conduct, as Americans do. They probobly have no to little training on the subject. I could get into it alot more but I will not. I could go on forever about things they did wrong. I respect them and there decisions, because I believe they did the best they could with the training they had. I believe we all owe them that respect.

    It seems to me that it was a ambush. Iran knew what they were doing. It has been a huge political ploy using propagana. And Iran looks like the good guys in the end. And American and the British look weak. Iran know's Bush is loosing his power because of the liberals, and that we probobly won't vote a republican in office. So they are pushing and seeing how far they can go. It's all a game.
     

  3. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Man...from the first time I saw them all eating on TV I was pissed.

    Where was their leadership telling them to stop wolfing down their food while the cameras were rolling? Why confess?
    The Brits need to grow a pair.
     
  4. jgullock

    jgullock Active Member

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    This is just another indication of how Britain (as a whole) has gone down the shitter.
     
  5. Adam5

    Adam5 Atlanta Overwatch

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    Hannity was talking the other day, about rumors that the british soldiers had radioed in for permission to fire on the Iranians, and were ordered not to.

    Let Iran try to kidnap American sailors and Marnines. I don't think our soldiers would go down without firing a shot.
     
  6. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    They Did OK

    Yeah, the British boarding party should have had back-up. But since they didn't, it's not THEIR fault they got captured. The fault lies higher up.

    Also, I suspect that if they had not surrendered, the outcome would have depended on whether or not they really were in Iranian waters. Or at least if the Iranians thought they were. I could see the Iranians opening fire on them if they resisted, damn the consequences, there are 72 virgins waiting on the other side! But if the Brits were on the Iraqi side of the line, I'll bet the Iranians had orders not to fire a shot.

    Confession to their offense of trespassing? First of all, governments lie and soldiers lie on orders. They may have damn well been a mile into Iran's waters and not cared, and they're lying about it now. Rember how the USA denied that it had spy aircraft over the USSR in the early 1960s, even up to the day AFTER they shot down Francis Gary Powers in his U2 several hundred miles into their country? They had to parade him in front of the TV cameras to counter America's stubborn lie.

    So maybe they were trespassing. If that's how it was, then Iran has the right to have them admit it and apologise.

    If they weren't trespassing, their "confession" has no effect. Nobody will give it any weight or credence, under the circumstances. It was coerced. All it is good for is propaganda purposes by the Iranians. Big deal. In their closed little society, they are fully saturated with propaganda anyway.

    Last point: If the Brits had tried to rescue their POWS / Hostages, it is likely that at least 15 Brits would have died, and within a week after that the USA and Britain would sink the entire Iranian Navy, seize all their ports, and announce that "allied" forces would control all the shipping in the region now. So then we'd end up being hated by even more muslims and we'd be exposing our troops to more guerilla warfare. The region would be further destabilized.

    The present results are better than that scenario. Besides, now everybody's gonna know where the line in the water is from now on.
     
  7. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

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    I would like to remind you that the Marine Embassy guards were ordered not to fire when the Iranians took over the US Embassy. When Soldiers are ORDERED not to fire they don't :!:
     
  8. ls1ssdavid

    ls1ssdavid New Member

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    I want to coment more on this subject. :? But I will not post because anyone can access these boards...
     
  9. ls1ssdavid

    ls1ssdavid New Member

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    I believe they said when the British requested permission to do something (stop the hostage taking) there operational chain of command went to a UN Commander. Or something along those lines. And that might play a factor in why they did not fire a shot. They didn't want to start an international incedent. Who knows though...
     
  10. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    Even in self-defense?
     
  11. foshizzle

    foshizzle New Member

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    You know what? I keep posting non-firearms related things in the "In the News" forum. #-o Oh, wait! I DID post it in Off Topic. Look at that! :wink:
     
  12. glockgirl

    glockgirl New Member

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    but since this forum is not full of Jacka$$ we all forgive you....

    i really don't pay attention to where the post is since I just use the view unread post button
     
  13. ptsmith24

    ptsmith24 New Member

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    ditto.
     
  14. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

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    YES :!: Thats the way it works.
     
  15. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    #1 - I thought the female refused to read the statement they gave her? Did she cave, too?

    Anyway, I am with foshizzle. I find it hard to believe these folks gave in to reading statements in front of the camera for the Iranians like that.

    I was disgusted when I saw them on TV.

    I don't suppose they will face a court martial.
     
  16. Rammstein

    Rammstein New Member

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    They are going to sell their story now...

    Lame.
     
  17. dbaker

    dbaker New Member

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    I remember when this crap hit the news. I nearly sprayed Mt. Dew all over the TV. It's been several years since I've gone through any SERE training, but I can guarantee that anyone with a lick of common sense would not say or do anything that they did. I heard the same thing that Brits don't go through any type of training for this. I also heard that they are told to do/say anything they can to get back home so their government can discredit it later.

    If they were Americans, they would have a very loooooooong debrief waiting for them when they got home.