Breaking Grip To Change Magazines And Release/Lock Slide

Discussion in 'Firearm Related' started by B-to-the-H, May 29, 2013.

  1. B-to-the-H

    B-to-the-H New Member

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    I've seen videos on YouTube that say you should be able to manipulate all the controls on your handgun without breaking your shooting grip.

    I own a SIG SP 2022 that has the smallest sized factory grip. I have no problems manipulating the slide stop on it without breaking my shooting grip. My thumb just reaches the decocking lever in order for me to drop the hammer. The magazine release, however, I have to break my shooting grip to press in order to release the magazine.

    I rented a Gen4 Glock 19 to see if I liked how it shoots and how it felt. I really liked the size and I could actually release the magazine without breaking my shooting grip. I could also reach the slide stop but it wasn't as easy to manipulate since it didn't jut out. I imagine an extended slide stop would fix that issue.

    How important is being able to change magazines without breaking your shooting grip? How important is being able to manipulate the slide stop without breaking your shooting grip? Is one more important than the other?
     
  2. JMJ6127

    JMJ6127 New Member

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    If you can manipulate the slide lock and magazine release intentionally without breaking your shooting grip, you can also manipulate it accidentally while shooting.

    I recently picked up a GLOCK I'm in the process of getting rid of all that crap for. I already had a slide stop I replaced the horrible extended one with and I've got a standard mag release in the mail as well.

    He also had chromed pins in the gun so I picked up some black ones. That isn't detrimental to the performance of the gun the way extended mag releases and slide stops are, but it still bugs me.

    You don't need all that crap. The reason the mag releases are engineered where they are is specifically so you don't drop mags while shooting in a high pressure situation.

    If you do decide to go with a 19, particularly if its a gen4, I'd go so far as to put the larger backstrap on if I can dump a mag in a shooting position, but that's just me.
     

  3. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    I learned to break my grip slightly to let the gun rotate in my hand for reloads, keeping the gun up in front of me and perpendicular to my target (I see the left side of the gun in front of me and, looking past it, is my previous/current target) so I can see what I'm doing for reloading and still see movement and even refocus on my target if needed. With the gun rotated, the controls are easily manipulated, you can see what you're doing (no problem inserting the new magazine), and your gun is still up and can easily engage a target when you finish reloading. This is far easier and quicker than trying to keep the gun pointed at the target and doing the reload with the muzzle on target the entire time.
     
  4. Dirty J

    Dirty J BANNED (not really)

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    The Walther PPS was my solution to this issue.

    While most people initially turn their nose up at the paddle style magazine release on this model, I find it exceptional for quick magazine changes without altering my grip.

    The original Walther PPQ also uses this style (along with the P99 - much smaller though).

    I find it to be superior once you give it some time and get used to it.
     
  5. mathar1

    mathar1 New Member

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    Not breaking the grip is only an advantage in competition shooting where tenths of seconds can count. As everyone else pointed out it is a safety feature that is designed to prevent accidental mag dumps or premature slide releases.
     
  6. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    From what you describe, this is what I do as well.
     
  7. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    It is what you see in most of the tactical shooting training videos like Kelly McCann's training like shows in the "Inside the Crucible" DVD series. It makes a lot of sense in terms of both speed and the ability to see the target and your reloading process. (An excellent video series by-the-way)
     
  8. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    Here is an excerpt from one of the Kelly McCann videos that I learned some combat techniques from. Specifically, the 11 second mark will show the reload technique I typically use. McCann is also the person that I learned my belt holster draw from, which he shows in this video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGbcJmVXn3M
     
  9. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    I've learned the same. One instructor showed us rather memorably what can go wrong if you use your strong hand to drop the slide after a reload. If your right hand drops the slide before the left hand fully finishes the mag insert, you end up with an unchambered gun when you probably really, really needed it after your reload. It was memorable because of how fast he could do it either way to show us how easy you could be unchambered.

    He instructed us that weak hand should operate slide release, and strong hand should turn it (if needed) to operate mag release. He also had an automatic maneuver to rack the slide which was also a good position for using force to clear a hard jam, if it had one.
     
  10. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    Bingo - the weak hand does all the work except the initial magazine ejection.
     
  11. MesaCranker

    MesaCranker Active Member

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    I don't use my slide stop unless I'm locking the slide back... reloads are executed with the weak hand racking the slide.
     
  12. bman

    bman New Member

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    It is a slide stop not a slide go :p

    :but no seriously, mag release with strong hand, new mag with off hand, slide rack with off hand. Bang bang bang...

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
     
  13. jjstables

    jjstables Sentient Member

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    Both correct. The slide stop lever on my P9C is just barely out of comfortable reach when properly gripped, but I use the above-mentioned (by RedDawnTheMusical) method for magazine release and replacement. If the insertion of a fresh magazine does not release the slide, then I rack the slide to bring a round into battery. In my opinion, your grip should always be broken in order to properly operate the slide lock; and the slide stop lever should not be used to release the slide. Perhaps I'm paranoid, but I always envisioned that releasing the slide using the lock lever would slowly wear on the mating corners of slide and lever, eventually rounding those corners and diminishing the stop lever's ability to keep the slide locked back.
     
  14. EJR914

    EJR914 Cheezburger Operator

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    :righton:
     
  15. B-to-the-H

    B-to-the-H New Member

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    Interesting. I was the impression that if you broke you grip to when reloading, you would have to readjust and find your grip again as you pointed the gun back out toward the target, potentially having a negative effect on your accuracy. So that only matters for competition shooting but not so much in self-defense situations?
     
  16. JMJ6127

    JMJ6127 New Member

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    With proper training readjusting your grip shouldn't be an issue, it should become almost instinctual.

    I don't think about it when I'm practicing, I rotate the gun drop the mag, reload, drop the slide and the gun seems to "fall" right back into my shooting grip.

    I developed this habit by having a firearms instructor stand next to me with about 10 mags loaded with 1 round each and having me run through the drill a grand total of about 300 rounds. 1 round at a time. My reloads were causing me to rush shots on the POST qual course and streamlining my reloads got me qualified.
     
  17. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    There is minimal change in the grip. The index finger is still out along the slide and you're still gripping high - it is jus that the grip is loosened to let the gun rotate in the hand. Small rotations of the strong hand rotate the gun down to rack the slide with the weak hand (after the new magazine is inserted) and then rotate it back up. Even when racking the slide, I have the gun pointed forward, parallel to the ground, so a shot could be fired as soon as the slide is released by the weak hand pulling back on it. Some people reach over and rack the slide while the gun is still in the same position that the magazine reinsertion tool place, but I don't like that as 1) it is too easy to put your weak hand in front of the barrel as you come over the top of the gun and 2) if you have a very stiff recoil spring (for +P ammo) then you have more leverage when the gun is rotated down, parallel to the ground and your strong hand is pushing while the weak hand is pulling the slide back to release it. For my 1911 this is a lot easier, so I treat all my semi-autos the same.

    Except when the magazine is being inserted, the barrel is always being pointed forward and always I can see the target past the barrel. By moving the gun into the rotated position during the magazine insertion, I can see clearly what I'm doing and there is less likelihood of missing an attempt at the magazine insertion under pressure. With a little practice, you'll find that this reload technique is very fast and reliable. The combination of speed and reliability is the key.
     
  18. Rugerer

    Rugerer GeePeeDoHolic

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    There is some effect on accuracy; there would have to be, But it's been explained to me in different classes as a "standard of accuracy" you need to achieve.

    In competition, it's ok to take slightly longer to hit in a small area.

    In the fight of your life, it's ok to go faster and hit anywhere in an 8-inch area. The standard of accuracy is different. I've seen it written on a blog somewhere that if you're creating groups smaller than your hand, you're shooting too slow; wider than your hand, too fast.

    Hits on body is more important than tight groups.
     
  19. RedDawnTheMusical

    RedDawnTheMusical Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely correct. In self-defense/combat training you're taught/reminded that you're attempting to create a much trauma as possible when you shoot. Two shots, center mass, a few inches apart is better than two shots in the same exact spot. A reasonable spread still puts you on target while creating more damage/trauma, increasing blood loss. This is especially important with pistol shooting.
     
  20. gunsmoker

    gunsmoker Lawyer and Gun Activist

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    I think I have to break my grip (mostly) on any and every medium to full sized handgun I've ever used. Some guns are worse than others.
    But, I don't want my magazine release button to be too easy to hit and press, either by accident with my thumb OR by my holstered pistol pressing into my body as I brush past a parked car, lean against a wall, squeeze my wide butt into a chair with armrests, etc.

    I used to have a polymer-framed pistol that I'd pocket carry, and the mag was constantly coming loose from the gun getting pressed against my thigh and poking the mag button. I eventually ground the button down to that it was very difficult to release, but for that particular gun it was no big deal because I didn't normally carry a spare mag for it anyway.