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Plus, let's consider that binary triggers, used with or without a bump firing technique by the shooter, don't really let a semi-auto shoot as fast, while being nearly as accurate and well-controlled, as bumpfire or slidefire stocks do. A binary trigger can double your normal semi-auto rate of fire, but that's only going from maybe 3 shots per second up to 6 shots per second. Six bangs per second is 360 rounds/ minute, and that is not a full-auto rate of fire. It's more like what you'd get from an 1870's era Gatling gun, manually cranked.

No mass killer in recent memory has used a binary trigger, although other trigger manipulation devices have been used (1993, San Francisco was the last time I can recall-- he had HellFire trigger devices on his Tec-9 assault pistols).

The public isn't calling for restrictions on trigger cranks, Hellfires, or other gimmicky, less-effective ways of making semi-autos shoot faster. The public isn't calling for a ban on bump-firing as a technique, or do the American people want to ban semi-autos or reinstate the 10-round magazine limit we had with the 1994-2004 Assault Weapon Ban. Instead, the public wants to ban bumpfire stocks, slidefire stocks. Stocks. That's what the public is demanding be thrown under the bus, and they are going to be thrown under.
 

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A binary trigger can double your normal semi-auto rate of fire, but that's only going from maybe 3 shots per second up to 6 shots per second. Six bangs per second is 360 rounds/ minute, and that is not a full-auto rate of fire. It's more like what you'd get from an 1870's era Gatling gun, manually cranked.
Where is a "normal semi-auto rate of fire" defined? The SAAMI website? NSSF website? ATF website? Jerry Miculek's website? Breitbart.com? There's no such thing.
 

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The public isn't calling for a ban on bump-firing as a technique...
The public is woefully ignorant that bump firing can be accomplished with no add-on components. What is going to happen when they discover this? Will the act of non-assisted bump firing become illegal?

...or do the American people want to ban semi-autos...
They are being driven to that agenda via the hysteria of our politicians. Diane Feinstein anyone?
 

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Instead, the public wants to ban bumpfire stocks, slidefire stocks. Stocks. That's what the public is demanding be thrown under the bus, and they are going to be thrown under.
Then why is this ruling using the largest net the ATF can use to ensnare everything that isn't a bump stock? Because maybe bump stocks aren't the eventual target?
 
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I would appreciate hearing thoughtful comments from the members posting here. Anybody?

Mrs_Esterhouse, do you think the new regulation encompasses binary triggers? Franklin Armory says no. I say yes.
The DOJ document is smoke and mirrors to justify whatever outcome they wish. Words do not have meaning (2A, 5A, Commerce Clause, HB60). We have an unelected, unaccountable federal agency performing the duties of Congress-making law-under the direction of the executive branch. So, to that, I say we live in a post constitutional America where policy is decided based on how loud the mob cries.

The highest court in the land, which is supposed to act as a hedge against congressional overreach, rules based on societal norms and populism.

Heller further observed that it would be "startling" to conclude "that the National Firearms Act's restrictions on machineguns . . . might be unconstitutional." Id. at 624. Since Heller, federal courts of appeals have repeatedly held that federal statutes prohibiting machineguns comport with the Second Amendment.
Apparently, the National Firearms Act is constitutional because machinguns don't pass the "startling" test.

Rep Massie could not have stated better what is taking place with regard to bumpstocks and the forthcoming bureaucratic edict via the President.

Rep. Thomas Massie, the Kentucky Republican who leads the congressional Second Amendment Caucus, told Reason last fall: "It is the height of legislative malpractice to ask the executive branch to legislate… It will come back to bite us, and it erodes the system of government that the Founding Fathers intended to set up."
 

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"Finally the Department proposes to clarify the definition of a "machinegun" includes a device that allows semiautomatic firearms to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so the trigger resets and continues firing without additional manipulation of the trigger by the shooter (commonly known as bump-stock-type-devices)."
That doesn't even accurately describe how a bumpstock/slidefire works, unless one were to clip something solid over the front that latched in place with the first trigger pull and just made it run until the magazine was empty.
 

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You guys don't get it. They are going to do whatever they want. The mechanics of the guns and the triggers do not matter. What the law says does not matter. 80% of Americans do not understand the physics of bumpfire nor do they care. That ignorance provides ample cover for politicians to do whatever they like, that and the NRA's blessing.
 

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Yep, we now live in a post Constitutional America. We lost the Republic a long time ago.
 

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You guys don't get it. They are going to do whatever they want. The mechanics of the guns and the triggers do not matter. What the law says does not matter. 80% of Americans do not understand the physics of bumpfire nor do they care. That ignorance provides ample cover for politicians to do whatever they like, that and the NRA's blessing.
This is correct. We can discuss the validity of specific arguments all we want, but it won't change any outcome in the end.
 
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I got to shoot an AR today with a Franklin Arms binary trigger unit. I did two mag dumps (or attempted to.. the weapon failed-to-feed a few times, perhaps due to cheap Wolf lacquor coated ammo or the cheap mags I used for the first time in that particular gun.)

But when it was rocking and rolling, my cyclic rate was probably 600 rounds per minute, and it was controllable enough to keep a basketball-sized group on the chest of a man shaped target at 7 yards, popping off 20+ rounds before a malfunction stopped me from finishing the magazine.

I think such a trigger system is good for CQB / home defense, at close distances.
Of course you can flip the selector switch to normal semi-auto operation and get just one shot per pull, and no shot upon release of the trigger. I did that too, and got some decently tight groups at 100 yds.
 
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I got to shoot an AR today with a Franklin Arms binary trigger unit.
Do you know what gen the BFS was? And what was the host weapon?
 

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And yet, still not much faster than Jerry Miculek's trigger finger :D


If my math is right, that's 437 RPM out of a 9mm 1911. Granted, it's a race-gun, but still...

And mein g*tt, what he does with one of these things!


Yow! Six rounds on target in 0.69! 521 RPM with a Mossberg trigger...
 

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And yet, still not much faster than Jerry Miculek's trigger finger :D
None of us can have Jerry Miculek's trigger finger but we can all have a binary firing device. :righton:
 
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Then she probably doesn't need a binary trigger!
 

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My fostech ARII Gen2 trigger was modified with a lighter spring which gives it a lighter pull but keeps the heavier reset. It makes shooting binary faster and more controllable. In short bursts I can sustain over 600 rounds per minutes easily. People are coming out with new mods that make these triggers a lot more fun and purposeful. Not just for range fun.
 

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Anybody still intrigued and interested in binary triggers? Really want to get one (or three) but don't want to spend $350-$500 new or take a chance with a used unit? Franklin Armory and Fostech now have some competition. ITF Defense. His version is a bit different than the two big names but the end result is the same. Read the ar15.com thread below for the technical specifics. There's also a link to his website. The best part is the price. About half of the Franklin and Fostech units. The owner answered some specific questions I had and I'm seriously looking at getting a few of these.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/ITF-Defense-Binary-Trigger/118-756746/
 

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Interested, but intimidated by the thought of installing. Built a lower once. Not anxious to install a trigger group again.
 
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