Binary trigger

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Malum Prohibitum, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Anybody own one?

    Anybody shot one?

    I have seen videos, but, well, that means nothing. If you have any experience with one, please share your thoughts, impressions, and conclusions. I am asking for both fact and opinion, but only from those with a basis to provide either.
     
  2. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    I don't think they have started shipping them yet. Production did not start until late May so it may be a while before we have a chance to try one out. This does not eliminate the possibility that there may be some in circulation. Fostec Outdoors/Mossberg has one they call the "Echo Trigger" and you're not supposed to be able to out run it like you can the binary. At close to $500 for a trigger you need to have a huge desire to run through your ammo in short order.

    I plan on trying one or maybe both out as soon as I can. Looks like it will the middle of 2017 before we can get our hands on them. By then the ATF may switch gears and require form 4 for them.
     

  3. AtlPhilip

    AtlPhilip Proud GCO member.

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    :shock:
     
  4. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    The Franklin Armory BFS has been on the market for about a year.
     
  5. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Both the Fostech and the Franklin Armory binary triggers have major discussions at ar15.com. Lots of personal testing, modifications, what-ifs, etc. I doubt you'll find more information anywhere on the net.

    Original Franklin Armory thread:
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/...ranklin_Armory___Update_testing_underway.html

    Updated Franklin Armory thread:
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/...__Update_08_31_Triggers_are_shipping____.html

    Original Fostech thread:
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/688703_Fostech_ECHO_Trigger__How_is_this_legal_.html

    Updated Fostech thread:
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/702614_Fostech_Echo_Update_Vid___Informative.html
     
  6. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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  7. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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  8. mrhutch

    mrhutch Well-Known Member

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    All I know is, I want one bad, and will be getting one soon unless awful reviews start surfacing to convince me otherwise.
     
  9. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Ok, the sear trip prevents the hammer following the bolt forward.
     
  10. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    Also, there's an issue with the Fostech sear (if I understand it correctly) that has to do with the "potential" (there's that word the ATF loves) for playing with the sear (timing) to initiate true automatic fire.
     
  11. ber950

    ber950 Active Member

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    I know it sounds expensive but you have to compare that $500 to the cost of a transferable auto. The last M16 I saw for sale was $16,000. That was during the lowest part of the economic downturn. I doubt you can buy one for that now.
     
  12. moe mensale

    moe mensale Well-Known Member

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    The price difference between a binary trigger and a transferable full auto can buy you a lot of ammo. :uzi:And no government permission slip required.
     
  13. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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  14. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  15. Mrs_Esterhouse

    Mrs_Esterhouse Swollen Member

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    Don't worry the 2A is a bulwark against a tyrannical government ignoring its constitution.

    :lol:
     
  16. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Moderator Staff Member

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    I would appreciate hearing thoughtful comments from the members posting here. Anybody?

    Mrs_Esterhouse, do you think the new regulation encompasses binary triggers? Franklin Armory says no. I say yes.
     
  17. Wegahe

    Wegahe NRA Instructor

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    The main key I see in it is...

    "Finally the Department proposes to clarify the definition of a "machinegun" includes a device that allows semiautomatic firearms to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so the trigger resets and continues firing without additional manipulation of the trigger by the shooter (commonly known as bump-stock-type-devices)."

    The above is from page 21 that has been specifically pointed to for discussion. A binary trigger does not harness the recoil energy and does require additional manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.

    It is a stretch on the code to even put fourth such a statement that it doesn't require additional manipulation of the trigger when the recoil only allows the trigger to reset. It takes an additional force by the shooter to push the recoiled rifle back out to again engage the trigger.

    I think it doesn't include the binary trigger with the text we have at hand. I also think when the final comes down it will be worded to also include the binary trigger. I also think there is a good ex post facto case to be had.

    I could put in a lot more "I thinks" but I was told thinking is dangerous since I'm not used to it.
     
    TimBob likes this.
  18. GAfirearmsReference

    GAfirearmsReference Weapons Law Booklet

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    I think that if the feds can play fast and loose with the statutory definition of "machine gun" to interpret it to apply to subconsciously pulling the trigger once per shot, but at a rate faster than your nerves and muscles would allow...

    ... it's only a short step to also say that releasing the trigger, even intentionally and deliberately, is not a separate action from pulling the trigger. ATF can say that a "single function" of the trigger is a conscious and individually-executed cycle of press (gun discharges) and release (gun doesn't discharge). Getting two shots out of one press-and-release trigger function is a machinegun, they'll say.

    But ATF would have to come up with a new notice of proposed rulemaking, changing (or just creating) the regulatory scheme regarding triggers. I don't think that the current proposal that has been kicked around for over a year and has generated hundreds of thousands of public comments really addresses this issue. It merely lays the groundwork for future proposed Rules and new administrative regulations.