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Senior Mumbler
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Discussion Starter #1

While I don't necessarily agree with everything in this study, it is an eye opener.
 

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As usual, the best self defense caliber will be the one that you can shoot the best (fast, accurate shots), particularly in a stressful situation where even gross motor skills can fail you.
 
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Deplorable bitter clinger.
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Pretty good video. It reflects stuff that Ellifritz has written before at his blog at Active Response Training. Nothing too earth shattering but quite interesting.

Best: centerfire rifles and shotguns

Okay: 380 and larger handguns

Poor: 25 acp, 22LR, 32 acp mouse guns
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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As he determined (8:30 mark) .357mag works best, and he pictured a Colt Python.

Nuff Said.

Nemo
 

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As he determined (8:30 mark) .357mag works best, and he pictured a Colt Python.

Nuff Said.

Nemo
I hope you cleaned up after yourself. :lol:
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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Didn't need to. I had seen that before so I put protection VEST on.

Nemo

WAIT, HOLD ON, You Know What I Mean, Yah, the vest, the vest, real IIIA vest. That's it, VEST! VEST!
 

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Lawyer and Gun Activist
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As usual, the best self defense caliber will be the one that you can shoot the best (fast, accurate shots), particularly in a stressful situation where even gross motor skills can fail you.
Yep. I believe your proficiency with a handgun matters a lot more than caliber or even bullet type.

but since this thread is specifically about choosing a caliber, rather than choosing a gun, I agree with the author's ultimate conclusion that among all the popular and well-respected choices in defensive handgun calibers there just isn't that much of a difference between them in real world terminal performance.

If recoil is an issue for you with some rounds, given your preferred size of carry gun, it's OK to downsize to 9mm for the sake of shooting faster with greater accuracy and confidence.

Quote from GREG ELLIFRIRZ in 2013:
"I don't care what you carry for self defense. My research shows that there really isn't much of a difference at all between the service caliber handguns. Pick what you shoot well, not what a misinformed gunwriter tells you that you need."
 

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Yep. I believe your proficiency with a handgun matters a lot more than caliber or even bullet type.

but since this thread is specifically about choosing a caliber, rather than choosing a gun, I agree with the author's ultimate conclusion that among all the popular and well-respected choices in defensive handgun calibers there just isn't that much of a difference between them in real world terminal performance.

If recoil is an issue for you with some rounds, given your preferred size of carry gun, it's OK to downsize to 9mm for the sake of shooting faster with greater accuracy and confidence.

Quote from GREG ELLIFRIRZ in 2013:
"I don't care what you carry for self defense. My research shows that there really isn't much of a difference at all between the service caliber handguns. Pick what you shoot well, not what a misinformed gunwriter tells you that you need."
Well, I was referring to caliber and not the actual firearm, so I think we're on the same page. Frankly, whenever the seldom event occurs where someone asks my 2 cents on what to carry, I generally recommend 9mm. It isn't that the round, as proven Greg's research, is any more effective, but it is effective as anything else, most people can handle the recoil easily, it is easy to get firearms with decent capacity for the number of 9mm rounds, etc.

I agree with the research that, when excluding the mouse rounds, pretty much any pistol caliber isn't going to make a statistically significant difference over any other - unless we're talking something extreme like 454 Casull or 460. Shot placement, capacity, the ability to get cover, etc. - these are the greater factors than caliber.
 

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Man of Myth and Legend
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In my dad's day, a condom was called a "safety."
He'd giggle sometimes when I'd say something like
"I took this girl on a date to the gun club, and I had to show her the safety three times. She kept fogetting it."
Off Topic.

Nemo
 

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I thought it was well known that .45acp was superior. I'm leaving now before malum starts talking about 10mm
No fair! 10mm was not mentioned!

Anyway, the results would be quirky. 10mm might be equivalent to ball range ammo in a 40S&W or might be 200 grain hunting rounds at 1300 fps.

Very few rounds have muzzle energy over 700, which even then does not noticeably move the needle much over other powerful handgun rounds (.357) he did review. My personal carry ammo is only 694 ft lbs (Underwood 200 grain XTP).
 

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A rifle or shotgun being more effective ought to be a "duh" sort of response from those on this web site.

The discussion of bug out bag and whether to choose a pistol, shotgun, or rifle, was odd, especially when he put it in the context of police officers murdering persons trying to leave New Orleans via Danziger bridge.
 

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Lawyer and Gun Activist
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Let's take the characteristics of the gun out of the equation.
Let's say the gun in question is double-barreled (over-under) pistol with barrels that are 6" long, rifled bores, one set of good high-visability iron sights down the center rib, a pistol grip only that feels a lot like a 1911 with similar width and grip angle, and a single-action only trigger that breaks at a crisp 4.5 lbs. It looks like a long-barreled derringer, but with a full-finger grip, and no external hammers. It's got a grip safety like a 1911 (or Springfield XD) and it's got a safety inside the trigger's face (like a Glock).

You can have this gun in any caliber, any cartridge, you want.
No matter what you choose, the gun will have the same basic size, shape, and weight.
Get it in .308 Win. if you wish. Or .22 short. 12 gauge 3.5" magnum, even.
.458 Win Mag. 9mm, 10mm, 11.43 mm. Whatever you want. Yes, it's +P rated. You can have .38 super, .45 Magnum, .357 Maximum. You pick it.

But, the condition is that this is the ONLY firearm you may have available for self-defense away from your home. This will be your one and only carry gun, vehicle glove box gun, etc.

So.... with those options and that one limitation in mind.... what caliber do you choose?
 

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As he determined (8:30 mark) .357mag works best, and he pictured a Colt Python.

Nuff Said.

Nemo
A .357 is definitely superior at distance than any of the johnny come lately calibers and I have a challenge to those that beg to differ.
 

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Capacity is the ability to take down many attackers with limited ammo. I do believe he has that covered.
Odd - I defined it as the amount of rounds a particular weapon holds. I guess if the enemy is congregated in one sufficiently compact area, then the point may be rather moot.
 

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Let's take the characteristics of the gun out of the equation.
Let's say the gun in question is double-barreled (over-under) pistol with barrels that are 6" long, rifled bores, one set of good high-visability iron sights down the center rib, a pistol grip only that feels a lot like a 1911 with similar width and grip angle, and a single-action only trigger that breaks at a crisp 4.5 lbs. It looks like a long-barreled derringer, but with a full-finger grip, and no external hammers. It's got a grip safety like a 1911 (or Springfield XD) and it's got a safety inside the trigger's face (like a Glock).

You can have this gun in any caliber, any cartridge, you want.
No matter what you choose, the gun will have the same basic size, shape, and weight.
Get it in .308 Win. if you wish. Or .22 short. 12 gauge 3.5" magnum, even.
.458 Win Mag. 9mm, 10mm, 11.43 mm. Whatever you want. Yes, it's +P rated. You can have .38 super, .45 Magnum, .357 Maximum. You pick it.

But, the condition is that this is the ONLY firearm you may have available for self-defense away from your home. This will be your one and only carry gun, vehicle glove box gun, etc.

So.... with those options and that one limitation in mind.... what caliber do you choose?
Interesting point given those limitations I think I would opt for 45 colt. Large diameter heavy bullet sufficient power but relatively controllable for that second shot.
 
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