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Let's say I'm walking down the street with my backpack on and some bad guy takes out a gun, demands my backpack and then walks off with it. Can you shoot him if he's walking away? Let's say I have camera equipment in the bag. Not books
 

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Atlanta Overwatch
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If he already waking away, the robbery is over, and you would have a hard time explaining why you still felt that your life was in jeopardy.
 

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Ninjaneering Computers
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Let's say I'm walking down the street with my backpack on and some bad guy takes out a gun, demands my backpack and then walks off with it. Can you shoot him if he's walking away? Let's say I have camera equipment in the bag. Not books
If he's walking away, then there is no longer a threat. You cannot legally shoot him.

Personally, I don't agree with the law here, but it is the law.
 

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Agree with everyone else. If you can't reasonably articulate fear of bodily harm... you'd be in a heap of trouble over a shoot in those circumstances.

The only time this would be a decent shoot would be while the gun was still presented and the threat was active. A fleeing suspect is not one to be shot.

Equipment can be replaced. Your life cannot. That's the difference.
 

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If he already waking away, the robbery is over, and you would have a hard time explaining why you still felt that your life was in jeopardy.
Correct, BUT.... If he's walking away while still holding a firearm you could tell him to stop or if he's running run after him( this is dangerous ), but when he turns to confront you again while of course holding a firearm and in most ceases will probably display it. Blast him then and its 100% justifiable shooting.
 

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Ninjaneering Computers
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Correct, BUT.... If he's walking away while still holding a firearm you could tell him to stop or if he's running run after him( this is dangerous ), but when he turns to confront you again while of course holding a firearm and in most ceases will probably display it. Blast him then and its 100% justifiable shooting.
I expect you'll still have a hard time with this, since you have effectively re-initiated the encounter.
 

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What about eliminating a threat posed to others? If he has threatened your life, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that he threatens others' life/safety, as well? I seem to recall an instance in the last few years where a father and son (owners/operators of a business - they were transporting the day's receipts) were attacked/robbed, the father shot and wounded, and the son shoots the fleeing suspect. I believe the argument that the son was protecting "society" was successful, since the suspect had already demonstrated a willingness to injure/kill others to obtain what he wants. Any "Legal Eagles" here recall this case? Is this a valid argument, or just a fluke? Can an individual rob you at gunpoint, and then just walk away; basically taunting you with "You can't shoot me - I'm walking away. You can't shoot me - I'm walking away." To quote one of my granddaughters, "This sucks!" I'm not advocating hunting down criminals and shooting them, but this seems an awful lot like the school yard bully that runs up from behind, sucker-punches you, and then dares you to do something about it. Either we need a whole boat-load more cops, or we need to seriously re-think this whole thing. I'm just saying...
 

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So if police officer does not draw his gun on an armed robber, because the bad guy gets the drop on him, then when the bad guy turns to walk away the police officer has to acquiesce and let him go?

Is that the law?

What can the officer do in that situation?

Is the law different for you, if you are not a police officer?

If the law is different, how is it different?

In what ways do those differences, if any, affect the legality of decisions you make in this situation, and how does the legality of your conduct compare to that of the police officer in the exact same situation?

Please do not pass over these questions lightly or provide superficial answers. The questions are very specific for a reason.
 

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Sounds almost like the law is on the bad guy's side and not the good guy's side. Almost like Europe.
 

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Ninjaneering Computers
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I'm game. I'll try, but go easy on me. I'm just a computer jockey pulling this out of my :3hat:.

So if police officer does not draw his gun on an armed robber, because the bad guy gets the drop on him, then when the bad guy turns to walk away the police officer has to acquiesce and let him go?
No.

Is that the law?
I can't imagine it is the law.

What can the officer do in that situation?
The officer can, and most certainly will, attempt to arrest the robber. The officer will not (or should not) just pop a cap in his :3hat:. However if the robber does not submit to the arrest and presents the weapon in a threatening manner, I expect him to be (rightfully) shot.

Is the law different for you, if you are not a police officer?
I do not know for sure, but I suspect the law is no different for a citizen.

If the law is different, how is it different?
It may not be different, but it will be presented differently in court. An officer operating under the color of law seems to be, in this day and age, granted quite a bit more credibility in his actions than mere citizens.

In what ways do those differences, if any, affect the legality of decisions you make in this situation, and how does the legality of your conduct compare to that of the police officer in the exact same situation?
I do not believe that the legality of the decisions made by the officer and the citizen would be at all different, but I do believe they would be treated very differently. I expect that in the same situations, the officer would either not be charged or would be acquitted quickly at the worst, and at best would be commended for his actions. I expect that the mere citizen would most definitely be charged and would face the very real possibility of prison time.

Please do not pass over these questions lightly or provide superficial answers. The questions are very specific for a reason.
I can't wait to hear the real answers. I was never good at essay questions.
 

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O.C.G.A. § 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.​

O.C.G.A. § 17-4-61 - Taking of persons arrested before judicial officer or to peace officer; duty and liability of peace officer taking custody

(a) A private person who makes an arrest pursuant to Code Section 17-4-60 shall, without any unnecessary delay, take the person arrested before a judicial officer, as provided in Code Section 17-4-62, or deliver the person and all effects removed from him to a peace officer of this state.

(b) A peace officer who takes custody of a person arrested by a private person shall immediately proceed in accordance with Code Section 17-4-62.

(c) A peace officer who in good faith and within the scope of his authority takes custody of a person arrested by a private person pursuant to this Code section shall not be liable at law for false arrest or false imprisonment arising out of the arrest.​

O.C.G.A. § 17-4-62 - Taking of persons arrested before judicial officer within 48 hours of arrest

In every case of an arrest without a warrant, the person arresting shall, without delay, convey the offender before the most convenient judicial officer authorized to receive an affidavit and issue a warrant as provided for in Code Section 17-4-40. No such imprisonment shall be legal beyond a reasonable time allowed for this purpose; and any person who is not brought before such judicial officer within 48 hours of arrest shall be released.​
 

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Cross-drawer
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So if police officer does not draw his gun on an armed robber, because the bad guy gets the drop on him, then when the bad guy turns to walk away the police officer has to acquiesce and let him go?

Is that the law?

What can the officer do in that situation?

Is the law different for you, if you are not a police officer?

If the law is different, how is it different?

In what ways do those differences, if any, affect the legality of decisions you make in this situation, and how does the legality of your conduct compare to that of the police officer in the exact same situation?

Please do not pass over these questions lightly or provide superficial answers. The questions are very specific for a reason.
It is sad that these are questions that need to be asked. Laws should be written better and should be for everyone.

On a side note, how many here think that the way we amend current laws (underscore new text and strike through deleted text) as opposed to totally re-writing sections of the law and putting revision bars adjacent to all changes, attributes to the laws being so convoluted after a while?
 

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The arresting person may not punish the offender, such as (real example) hanging him by his feet and striking him . . . McPetrie v. State, 263 Ga. App 85 (2003).

It is false arrest for a citizen to arrest four days later for a misdemeanor (committed four days prior). McWilliams v. Interstate Bakeries, Inc., 439 F.2d 16 (5th Cir. 1971).

Citizen may not arrest on a warrant. Coleman v. State, 121 Ga. 594 (1905).

(b) Patel also asserts that trial counsel was ineffective for failing to request a charge on a citizen's right to arrest a felon under OCGA § 17-4-60.[6] Trial counsel testified that he did not request such a charge because there was no evidence at trial that Patel was attempting to effectuate an arrest, nor did counsel believe that the statute excused the shooting and killing of a fleeing felon.

"Although a private person may make a citizen's arrest under OCGA § 17-4-60, only force that is reasonable under the circumstances may be used to restrain the individual arrested ... the use of unreasonable force ... could not have been part of a legitimate citizen's arrest." Carter v. State, 269 Ga. 891, 894(7), 506 S.E.2d 124 (1998). Here, Patel did not attempt to restrain the victim; rather, he shot and killed him minutes after commanding him to halt. As in Carter, supra, there was no evidentiary support in this case to warrant a charge on OCGA § 17-4-60. Thus, trial counsel was not ineffective in failing to request such a charge. Strickland, supra.​
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1245424/patel-v-state/

No mandamus available to force the sheriff to arrest a violator, because a citizen's arrest is available, and mandamus will not lie if there is an adequate legal remedy. Solomon v. Brown, 218 Ga. 508 (1962). That's right, the court is saying if the Sheriff won't do it, you have to drag the guy before the magistrate judge.

Police officer outside jurisdiction may make a citizen's arrest for an offense committed in his presence (battery). Wells v. State, 206 Ga. App. 513 (1992)

There was no evidence that the defendant, who murdered the victim with a rifle, was attempting to effect a valid citizen's arrest and, hence, the defendant was not entitled to an involuntary manslaughter charge. It was not reasonable for the defendant to to attempt an arrest with a semi-automatic weapon as deadly force in effecting an arrest is limited to self-defense or a situation in which it is necessary to prevent a forcible felony. Hayes v. State, 261 Ga. 439 (1991). https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1233384/hayes-v-state/
 

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The state contends that it would not be reasonable for Turner to attempt an arrest with an AR-15 semi-automatic weapon which he was not licensed to carry.
From the last case cited. The ignorance among the prosecutors and the entire Georgia Court of Appeals in setting forth this sentence is astounding. There has never been a license required to carry a rifle in the state of Georgia. Ever.
 

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https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1217054/johnson-v-jackson/

It is not only the right but the duty of a private citizen when a felony is committed to apprehend the felon; and, after a felony is committed, any private person may arrest the felon with the same view, upon reasonable and probable ground of suspicion of his guilt. A private man has quite as much power to arrest a fugitive felon, where the emergency calls for immediate action, as a public officer, and while so doing, is equally under the protection of the law. And he apparently has the right to arrest under certain circumstances in order to prevent a felony from being committed, which felony has not yet been attempted.

Citations omitted (but you can see them by clicking on the link).
 

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Correct, BUT.... If he's walking away while still holding a firearm you could tell him to stop or if he's running run after him( this is dangerous . . .
"It is not only the right but the duty of a private citizen when a felony is committed to apprehend the felon."

-Johnson v. Jackson, 140 Ga. App. 252 (1976)​
 

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Ninjaneering Computers
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So what I'm hearing is that my answer about the legality was correct - the law is the same for both cops and citizens.

What about my contention that in practice the two would be handled very differently?
 

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So what I'm hearing is that my answer about the legality was correct - the law is the same for both cops and citizens.

What about my contention that in practice the two would be handled very differently?
I am thinking that one key difference is that as a private citizen, you don't have the oh-so-powerful civil immunity protection that LEO has. To me...that's a BIG, BIG deal.

Until there is some case law to show that a private citizen has been CHARGED and CONVICTED for NOT trying to apprehend a felon, then I most likely will be leaving that to the cops (ver, VERY generalized, however.)
 

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Ninjaneering Computers
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I am thinking that one key difference is that as a private citizen, you don't have the oh-so-powerful civil immunity protection that LEO has. To me...that's a BIG, BIG deal.

Until there is some case law to show that a private citizen has been CHARGED and CONVICTED for NOT trying to apprehend a felon, then I most likely will be leaving that to the cops (ver, VERY generalized, however.)
I did also consider that as well. That immunity seems to be used to excuse even the worst of cop behavior, even in Georgia. Throw a grenade into a crib and blow a baby's face off? No worries - qualified immunity.
 
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